Podcast Ep 381 - The Anatomy of an $8,000 Sale: Mindset, Marketing & Pricing
In this episode of the Flourish Academy Podcast, Heather sits down with three talented photographers—Katie Carmichael, Jess Wasik, and Marcy Frye—who each recently closed $8,000+ sales. From humble beginnings charging $25 for sessions to confidently running thriving businesses, these women share their journeys of growth, mindset shifts, and client experiences that led to high-value sales.
You’ll hear how they market, price, and most importantly, think about their work—and how these lessons can apply directly to your business. Success leaves clues, and today, you’ll get the inside look at exactly how these photographers made it happen.
Show Notes
- The evolution from $25 shoots to $8K+ client sales
- What really goes into an $8,000 sale (products, wall art, albums, and more)
- How mindset shifts are more important than “perfect pricing” or “better photos”
- The role of education, accountability, and community in business growth
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TRANSCRIPT
You're listening to the Flourish Academy podcast and today I am interviewing three
photographers with recent $8 ,000 sales. My name is Heather Lahtinen and I'm a
photographer, educator and entrepreneur and I founded the Flourish Academy as a
resource for photographers of all levels. We want to help you pursue your passion on
your own terms because we believe there is room for everyone. In this podcast,
we focus on creating breakthroughs with your mindset to discover the things that are
really holding you back in business and life. We are privileged today to hear from
Katie Carmichael, Jess Wasek, and Marcy Frye on their pricing, marketing,
and mindset around $8 ,000 sales. We often think that if our photos were better and
we had the perfect pricing and the right marketing plan that we would be able to
grow our businesses. But I really want you to pay attention to how these
photographers think. Success leaves clues, but instead of having to interpret those
clues, they are actually and directly telling you how this is possible for you.
These photographers have all been in Elevate and they have worked with me for
several years, if you would like to get more information on how to join us, you
can head over to www .flourish .academy /elevate.
I hope you enjoy our conversation. Thank you so much for being here today on the
podcast. I'd like for each of you to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit
about who you are and what you do and how you got started in photography. So
Marcy, what's up? All right. Well, Marcy Fry and I live in Central Florida.
I've been a photographer charging people for about 18 or 19 years. I got into
photography because my girlfriends at the time saw the photos I was taking of my
own kids and they're like, "Oh, well, you do it for me. I'll pay you. I'll pay
you." And I'm like, "I didn't want to take their money, so I charged him $25 and,
you know, from there it just grew. For the first, I've lived in three different
states, so I've had to recreate my business three different times, so it can be
done.
I started with high school seniors and families. I've done real estate photography,
and then I niched down to dogs about five years ago. I don't know how I did it,
but I made about $20 ,000 to $30 ,000 every year for the first, however many years.
And then when I discovered Nicole and Heather, my sales increased to $50 ,000 and
then went to $70 ,000. So I'm a believer. - So the systems work.
Did you have a job before photography? I can't remember. - I did, I was a stay at
home mom and then before that I was a liability claims adjuster. I handled litigated
claims. - That's right, we've talked about Well, do you happen to remember your first
sale in photography? Like how much? Yeah, it was $25 and I had to force,
you know, I mean, they had to force money on me. I'm like, I can't, people, oh,
I'm not good enough. No, I can't charge for this. This is too fun. I like doing
it. I'll just do it for you. Oh, right. It doesn't cost me anything. Right. Right.
So I'll just do it for free. I would do it for free. Well, then how did you
switch to, or I'm sure it was an evolution, But getting from that to,
no, this is my time. I should start charging. - I got really, really irritated with
how much time I was spending and going like I lived in a nice neighborhood and the
people I was photographing were living in nice houses and made lots of money. And
I'm like, I'm killing myself for your family with these gorgeous images for $50,
like spending hours and hours. I mean, I even knew that was not a good use of my
time. Right. I got mad at myself. Right. I need to. That's so funny.
The years I did high school seniors where I lived in a market where high school
seniors had to have photos taken. Every state is not like that. I only photoed
maybe 15 seniors and I was making $30 ,000. I worked one month out of the year and
made that. Which is amazing. That should have been a clue like, oh, if you try and
do other stuff, you might make more money 'Cause I didn't charge that much, you
know? I mean, it's like maybe 1500 bucks a session and they got an album and all
the digitals and wall. I mean, they got so much stuff. If I wasn't priced right,
but I still, that's what, you know, came in. - Right, so you were still doing well.
Okay, great, thank you. Katie, tell us how you got started.
- So I got started like a lot of moms starting to take pictures of your own kids
and then people noticed and asked me to take pictures of their family.
And actually the first job I had, someone from church asked me if I could do
headshots for her husband's dental practice. - Oh, fun. - And I did not know what I
was doing at all. It was looking back, you know, you've got to look back at these
old photos sometimes just to see how far you've come. So, but in the beginning I
was photographing mostly families and I'm doing pets and families right now.
So that's kind of what I like the best and trying to get away from headshots
because it doesn't fill me up like the pets and families do. - Do you remember your
first sale?
- Well, that dentist practice, I charged him $100. - Oh, wow. Good for you.
(laughs) - Marcy thinks that's a lot. - It was for your first session.
I was like 50. - I was like, I wasn't sure if that expression meant like, wow, you
were killing it or like, that's embarrassing. I don't know. - No, it means it was a
lot. It was like, hers was 25. Yeah, you're rich. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
You're rich. And I remember I showed up and I was looking. I hadn't been to the
practice before. I didn't have a studio. I was doing it in the office and I was I
didn't have flash. I didn't know anything. I was going to use the window light and
yeah, it was it was something. How many years ago was that?
It was it'll be 10 years in November. OK, all right. Yeah, Very good.
Thank you. Jess, tell us how you got started. I have you to blame because you saw
a photo of my dog Hunter on Instagram that was sepia toned, not really in focus,
like not good. And you said he is so handsome, you should be a pet photographer.
And I said, okay. And I think it was like six months later, I booked mentoring
with you and here we are. It will be nine years next Monday. I'm so excited.
Oh my gosh, congratulations. That's so funny because we met and for everyone
listening, Jess is actually local to me. And she came to a camera club. She had
that photo of Hunter. And I mean, that's exactly what I thought. That's a handsome
boy. You should be a pet photographer. And then her response, I will just never get
over. It seems so simple. But I want you to think about what you had to believe
when you just said, "Okay." - I think it was that someone else believed in me.
So like, if you saw it, then I could learn to see it in myself because I knew
that photo wasn't good. I just thought he was cute, but I'm like, someone else sees
something in me that I don't see yet and why not try? - Why not try?
What was your first session
Um, I did, uh, it was $150. Now don't get excited because I started in September
through the end of that year. I netted $235. I had three clients.
I had a dog and two pot belly pigs and it was not good. But you have,
you have to start somewhere. Okay. So all of you now you're here because Just last
week, sorry, it was two weeks ago now. Each of you had over an $8 ,000 sale.
It was just remarkable to me that the numbers were so close and within the same
week I had talked to all of you. I think I felt like it was a sign that we
needed to discuss how you went from $25 to $8 ,000 and what the evolution of that
looked like. So it doesn't matter, whoever wants to talk first about an 8 ,000,
well, everybody's curious, what is the anatomy of an $8 ,000 sale? So,
Katie, what was included in your 8 ,000, okay, two -part question, what was included
in that sale just from a, you know, service and product standpoint? And how did
this person find you?
Okay, so I found this person because I was,
I had met this girl who contacted me. She worked for a veterinarian's office and
she was the manager of this practice and was, she was putting together a client
appreciation party. And so sometimes I get these phone calls, people are looking for
a pet photographer to come and take pictures on site and do like minis at their
event. And for me personally, that's a big no because I don't like mini sessions.
I've tried them. I don't like that whole format is just not what I offer. It
doesn't represent what I do. And I really like to have time with my clients. So I
told her, I said, I'm not willing to do mini sessions at your event,
but I'd be happy to show up and offer a giveaway. And like maybe that'll be fun
for your clients and to win a giveaway. And so she was totally on board. She was
like, all right, cool. Thanks for like offering something. So I showed up and she
let me have a little table so I could display my work as well, which was really
nice. And I did a giveaway and that person won a pet portrait session.
And then she called me and said, "My daughter's so jealous that I won.
"I wanna buy her a session too." And so that was great because I did the giveaway
and I sold a session for her daughter. And then it was a great sale.
They were wonderful, fun clients, love, love working with them. And then later on
she mentioned that she'd like me to come back and do her family next year. So that
that was last year that I did the dogs and then this summer we planned for her
other daughter family session.
And she already knew what my system was like and everything because she'd experienced
it so she already knew she had done an album for her first session. And I asked
her are you thinking you want to do an album for her or are you thinking you want
to do wall art? And she said, I want to do wall art. So the tricky thing about
gifted sessions though is being clear on what the gift really is,
what's included.
And I wanted to be super, super clear on that from the get go because it's, I've
gotten into some sticky situations with this multiple adult gifting situation.
So what I ended up doing was I met with the daughter on Zoom and we we did
because she was out of town. We looked at her walls and we designed something
together on Zoom and and then I went back to her her mom and I told her what the
quote was. I was like I want to make sure that we're all on board before we even
shoot that this is the gift and she She said, "Great, let's go for it." So her
sale was mostly wall art and then some unadded few prints as well as gift prints.
What are your thoughts around a free gifted client then spending $8 ,000 on a gift
to her daughter? What do you think about that? Okay, well, first of all,
my cell wasn't exactly 8000. So I want to be fair.
Okay, what was it closer to seven? So anyway, I just want to be totally transparent
on that matter. But anyway, my thoughts are that is amazing. And um,
and I love it. Right. What else is there to say? But what are your thoughts about
your packages in your work?
I think that having the wall art done for you and you know, and I design the
walls, I do the framing and everything for you. I think it's wonderful, a wonderful
way to serve the clients who value that kind of level of service. I don't want my
clients to have to figure all that out and be like standing on their couch
measuring and, you and figuring out how they could possibly crop this.
And when I do everything for you, maybe I need to expand the background for that
shape. And I can do that. You know what I mean? Just little things like that that
they wouldn't think of or know how to do. I just want to be able to serve them
at a high level. And so you have to charge to do that. - So you want that,
yeah. - It's a service and you believe in the value of that service. Yes.
Like wholeheartedly. Yes. Clearly. Was this your highest sale? No.
What is your highest sale? My highest sale was about $23 ,000.
Wait, wait, what? Now that you say that, I do remember we had this conversation,
but I'm sure people listening are like, Are you kidding me?
What was in that sale?
That sale was lots of wall art. It was like a four piece wall grouping in one
room, and then two, three piece wall groupings in another room,
and then a big statement over the fireplace, and an album with some extra upgrades.
- And what were your thoughts about that sale?
- I had a lot of thoughts.
I mean, my heart was definitely racing at the time and I,
because that's a big number, but I also kept my mouth shut and let the client
decide if she wanted to do that. You managed your mind very well in that situation
because our brain, the tendency might be to either over -explain or offer a discount
or something, and the best move is to just zip it and allow the client to process
the number and the value and just let them decide. Right.
Exactly. And she did. Okay. What is your average sale? So my average sale right
now, if you include, um, like my little promotion sessions, like my calendar and
stuff like that, if you include it like that, then my average sale is around 1800
right now. And what are your thoughts on that? What would you like that to be? I
would like it to be more like 3 ,000. - Okay, we're getting there, right? But you
also have these occasional $7 ,000 and $23 ,000 sales.
- That's all over the map. - Right, but I mean, you'll take it, right? Who cares?
Like if you're bringing in a $7 ,000 sale and even at 23, Once you do it once and
you know you can do it, you can absolutely do it again. - Yes. - Right,
okay, great. I wanna, I have more questions, but I wanna, I would like to talk to
everyone else about their 8K sale. Jess, what is the anatomy of an 8K sale and how
did they find you? - This was an interesting one because we always talk about
bicycles and so many people come in thinking that when a client reaches out, they're
going to book you right then or they're never going to book you. This particular
client I met at a free pet photo with Santa event eight years ago. She came to
every single event year after year. I knew her first dog who was passed.
She has two new ones. And after seeing her this year, she said, "I'm going to book
with you." And she ended up booking, paid a 195 session fee, spent 8 ,645,
and that included two 16 by 20 frame prints, a 20 by 30 frame print,
a 20 image folio box, and two 5 by 7 gift prints. - And what are your thoughts on
that sale? When she's in your, you have a studio? - I have a portrait suite.
I don't call it a studio 'cause I don't shoot studio. I shoot all outdoors. I was
thrilled about this sale. It was a 7 % cost of goods, which is super fabulous. She
came in valuing artwork knowing that she wanted to capture her new dogs because she
never had the opportunity to do that with her first dog. And so that was really
important. And she just kept adding on and I'm just like, bring it on like this is
amazing. I felt like she such a good value because I know how much these images
mean to her. That's key is you believed in the value for the client. When you do
that, when you believe in that value and you're sitting with a person and you're
just saying, what is your phrase you say, what else or what next? How do you
phrase that when they're, I feel like you have a way of saying that when they, so
they, they're adding things and Instead of saying, "Is there anything else you would
like?" Because that's a yes /no. I think, is that how you say it? You say, "What
else?" Or anything? No. How do you say it? I never want to ask a yes /no because
it can stop the sale. As we are typically, I know, going in what we're building
for, and then there's always some images that are left over. What else would you
like to do with these? Now they're like, "Oh, well, maybe grandma needs a couple.
Maybe I do need a couple for the office, maybe my husband needs one for the man
cave. And until they tell me like, I'm done, I'm going to just keep presenting
options, because that's all I'm doing is giving them ways to enjoy these images.
Right. So it's pretty straightforward. You just, you're just inviting them to value
the images at whatever level they would like to do so. It's just open. Yeah.
There's nothing salesy. Everything is like, It's just an invitation because they're
excited to get their images. I'm excited to get some money We're both gonna win.
There's nobody that's gonna lose in the situation. Everybody wins Is is this your
highest sale? What was your highest sale? No, my very highest sale was 13 ,276 and
then I had a 10k 10 ,217 so this is like third highest and what's your average?
- This year it's 45, 20. - And what are your thoughts about that? - I'm good with
that. I mean, I always want it to go up, of course, but I'm comfortable where it's
at. It feels good. - How long have you been a six -figure photographer?
- I have had six -figure sales since 2022, which ironically was the first year I had
a 10K sale. - Oh, interesting. what do you attribute that to? I actually track this.
So every year I track my income and growth and I make little notes about the big
things I was changing or doing or implementing. And my sales jumped when I actually
started investing in education. Okay. Okay. That's the best answer I could ever hear.
Tell us more what that looks like. Lots of one -on -one education,
but my big one was I started with Nicole in Hair of the Dog back when that was
my main pet photography education platform, and then you launched Elevate in 2020
right before the pandemic, and I've never left since because I love the
accountability, I love learning from other niches and what people are doing, what's
working for them, what I can take and tweak, just having people to like celebrate
with who get it because I understand that you hear these numbers and you're like,
that's good for them. This is insane. It's never going to happen. But then you
surround yourself with people who are doing it or doing more than you want. And it
just feels like so good. Like, I couldn't imagine being without that because most
people aren't going to get this. Right. And so what you've done is created this
proximity, the proximity to the resources and the accountability and you've never
left. There are several people actually that joined Elevate in 2020 when we launched
it that have stayed forever. And I love that because they're making the money to
pay for Elevate. So then I always say it's basically free. (laughs) And then
everything else is bonus and you continue to make more and learn more. And so why
would you ever leave. If you're making money and you're still in photography, I did
a series, a couple, well, maybe was it last year? It doesn't matter. On the habits
of six -figure photographers, and I was referencing you in one of those videos about
the investments in education, is it any surprise then that you got to six figures
pretty quickly, and now I would classify you as a multi -six figure entrepreneur?
Oh, I should ask, this is good for everyone, but since you're here, did you have
any experiences as an entrepreneur? Did you set out to be a business owner? No.
I was always self -employed, which is a blessing and a curse, but photography
especially, no. I enjoyed photographing and playing around, and that was about it.
Funny enough though, I love the business more than I love photographing. I consider
myself an entrepreneur more than I do an artist or a photographer. - Yeah, same.
What did you do before photography? - I spent 24 years coaching figure skating.
- And you were a figure skater yourself? - For 31 years, yep. - With many accolades,
yes? - Yes. - Yeah, what was your biggest award?
- I am a six -time US figure skating gold medalist and a Canadian ice dance gold
medalist, which sounds like I've gone to the Olympics. I have not. It is basically
achieving the highest level you can achieve in these certain disciplines. Wow. That
is so impressive to me. I remember when you told me that I was like, wait, what?
I'm obsessed with figure skating and that's what you. Oh my gosh. That is so
amazing. So you're just, you're just a champion. You consider, you're just a winner.
You have the self concept is like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to figure
it out. There's no other option because if I don't figure it out then I can't do
it and I love it so much that there's there's just no other choice. I have to get
it correct. I got to do it on my own and make it work. Is there a parallel
between disappointment in business or facing rejection in business and landing on the
ice over and over and over again? Like when you would fail at a jump and you
would land on the ice, you had to be completely prepared to experience pain over
and over and over again before you nailed that jump. And then you become a
photographer and you experience failure or perceived rejection and you have to be
willing to feel that pain. That physical pain is also emotional,
but the rejection and the business is emotional, did that serve you or how did that
serve you? Yeah, skating, not just physical pain, I would say even more so mental
toughness, like perseverance. I always said, I might not be the best, but I'm going
to outlast everybody else. And it has given me a very thick skin. Like the stuff I
have heard is all subjective. It's someone's opinion, and it can come through the
same way in photography. One person's going to love an image that I don't like,
they might not be happy with this, they have a different preference. It's fine. It
has nothing to do with me. It's just someone's opinion. And you are able to
separate that and not take it personally. Is that because of skating? Oh, yeah.
I've had people not rate me high or pass a test on me because they didn't like
the way I looked, but they couldn't tell me what they wanted me to look like. And
it's like, this is not helpful, but okay, that's what you got to say and I'll just
go back and do it again. So I think the key here is that when you hear something
outside of yourself, an opinion or a judgment, you just basically do not receive it.
I just don't care. Like you can have your thoughts. I'm going to go over here and
make my money. And make my money and I will be laughing all the way to the bank
for sure. Okay, that's great. Thank you. I miss this. Katie, what did you do before
photography.
Before photography, I was a nurse. And what led you to photography? Well,
after my son was born, and I had always thought I would work part time,
that was what I envisioned was I was going to have kids and I was just going to
work part time. And and then I realized I did not want to leave him.
And so I stayed home for the most part it was when,
let's see, I guess it was 2015 when I, when I opened my business,
so I guess he was about four at the time. And I was starting to feel like I
really wanted to do something for myself. and that did not involve someone else
dictating my schedule. - Yes, your time. So would you say, take me back,
did you set, like did you go into this with, I wanna be a photographer,
a photography's fun, or did you go into it with like, I wanna start a business?
- I went into it with, this is fun. Wouldn't it be cool if people wanted to pay
me to do this? - Oh yeah, same. Yeah, that was mine too. - I wonder if they would.
Oh, wow, look, here's someone offering. - I always say I was an accidental
entrepreneur. I just picked up a camera and I loved photography and then this
business component popped up and I was like, they will pay me. Turns out I love
business. I didn't know anything about it. I don't know, did you, I mean, did you
have any background with business? - No, and in fact, I definitely hated sales.
I remember I had a job at a hotel one summer at the front desk and one of my
jobs was to make reservations. And I remember my boss saying he had this sheet that
was like, here's all the different ways people can get a discount like AAA or if
they work for this company or this or that, he's like, but never offer them that
unless they ask. And I like really didn't like that. And I was like,
I hate sales. And I think I've come a long way. I don't think I love sales as
much as Jess loves sales, but my goal is to love them as much as Jess. - Yes,
I love them as well. Okay, perfect. Marcy, the anatomy of an $8 ,000 sale and how
did they find you? So my sale was about $8 ,500 and I play tennis and the place
where I play tennis had a thing called a spring fling. It was a week -long tennis
tournament and they had a bunch of different vendors come in and I'm like, "You
know what the heck? I play tennis. I see these people. There's people from all over
our community, not just where I play tennis. So I set up my little booth and did
all my normal things that none of them worked. I had a horrible location that they
just, I think were, you know, oh, she belongs here. She will put, give her, you
know, a tent in the corner or a spot in the corner. And I had no traffic
whatsoever. But a couple people caught wind of what I was doing. And one of the
ladies that plays on a different team than I play and says, oh, you You know, do
you do fans? I advertise it as dogs. Do you do families too? And she has a dog.
And I'm like, yes. Yes I've done families, of course. She's like, oh, you know, I
want to get my whole family together, you know Oh, and we want to do it at the
beach and I'm like, and that's fine for me But it's a 45 minute one -way drive. So
I always think about like upcharges for time and whatever But anyway, she said she
was interested and I'm like, okay You know get me your number and I said you care
if I reach out to you because she wanted it around 4th of July and I wasn't sure
I was going to be in town and so I wanted to you know make sure that we were on
the same page and not not do my trip if you know whatever so anyway I just kept
after her and I said you know if you don't want me to keep after you let me know
she's like no no no no I'm just it was a family shoot and she was court she has
adult children in their 30s 20s and 30s and she's trying to coordinate and it's a
mixed family, so she's trying to coordinate a lot of people's schedules. So we
finally got down to a date and I told her, I said, you know, I'll do the honor
system with you. I said, I'm expecting, you know, that you, you're doing all this
because you want to order prints. So I'm not going to upcharge you. I charge my
sitting fee, which is $2 .49. I said, but I'm not going to upcharge you to drive
back and forth to the beach, kind of on a handshake. And I know you and I talked
about it because I was nervous after I did it and I'm like, oh my God, she's not
going to get anything, you know, because anyway, got there, family was great. It was
actually probably the most fun photo shoot I've ever done because everybody wanted
their photos taken. And we did, I mean, I think I took 1500 photos, which is a
lot for me for a family session, but it was five different families and all the
combinations and candid and run out of water and buy the sea oats and blah, blah,
blah. Anyway, we did it all. And I'm like, okay, they're great. Everybody loved the
photos. I told her, I said, you I'm only going to talk to one person, though, on
this order. So you got to coordinate it. I will answer people's questions and I'll
show them stuff. So they she had decided I took samples after the shoot. So all
the kids because they live in different states could all see like, this is what you
do like metal, do you like a gallery or do you like acrylic here? Or I do
farmhouse frames or do you like this? Well, they all liked farmhouse frames until
she got the price on that and because farmhouse frames for anybody listening in my
absolute favorite their work is amazing and you get what you pay for but you cannot
discount that product and make money um so anyway she comes to the ordering
appointment and she's decided like everybody's narrowed down their photos and I've
given her a price I started like I did start giving her like okay here's giving
you a range because I didn't want her to come and freak out about what the cost
was. So she got here and she didn't freak out because I can't afford to do that
for everybody. So after I talked to her, I found out that she wanted to make
everybody get a Christmas gift and every family had an $800 budget. And I'm like,
okay, if you can live with not farmhouse frames, two of the people liked metal
better and I use Bay Photo, which I love. And then White House Custom Color does,
it's nothing like Farmhouse Frames now, but they do a decent print at a price that
I can make money off of and framed and they wanted it all framed. So once I found
it, what everybody wanted and what her budget was, and this is not how most people
sell, I'm like, all right, let me figure out where I can find you what you want
so that I can get you the best price. And she also wanted an album and she wanted
everybody to get an album. So I reached out to my album people and I said if I
buy multiple albums and they're all the same will you give me a discount yes so
I'm like okay so now I can charge my saying but get my discount. So I finagled my
pricing to be that all her every family got a 16 by 24 whatever they picked be it
metal frame wrap whatever and an album for $800 And then I just charged for her
stuff, her album, and her, I think she got it. See, it hasn't come in yet. See,
they're 20 by 30 or 24 by 36 metal. And I just packed in the rest of the profit
and that, and that's what it added up to. So. And she was happy with that.
Oh my god, she's ecstatic. Her Christmas shopping is done. She is so, so happy.
Yeah. So she paid you $8 ,500 and she loved you. It was like,
"Please let me give you this $8 ,500." - She's like, "Do you take American Express?"
And I'm like, "I don't know, I do QuickBooks." I think so. It's like, "I told him
to accept everything." I'm like, "I don't know." - Right. - That was a question. "Do
you take American Express?" She wants the points, I'm sure. - Yes, of course. So how
did you feel about that? You're with her, adds up to $8 ,500. What was going
through your mind? - Am I charging her really enough? Did I discount it too much?
- Oh, that's hilarious. So you weren't thinking it was too expensive, you were
thinking - - No, I was thinking it was too cheap, but I wanted the sale really bad.
You know, I've been having issues with that this year. - Yes. - But my other thought
on this is she is my target market. We play tennis at the same place.
I don't like to promote myself where I live. I mean, if somebody asks,
I tell them, but I don't ever unless you really say you're interested like she did.
But I'm thinking what I'm going to do, which is not all right, but I think I'm
going to give her like a referral gift cards to her people that, you know,
the other ladies on the tennis team or people she may know. I mean, she owns a
million dollar house here. She owns a million dollar condo and they have a house in
North Carolina. So the kids have a trust fund. I mean, like this is my target
market. - Yeah, amazing. Okay, was this your highest sale? I think this-- - This is
my highest. I had one that was $8 ,000, which was a family with, she's got two
dogs and she wanted wall art all over the place in an album. And then my next one
after that, and that was someone I met where a dog training place I go to where
I've just promoted and met people over time. And then the other one I got was 6
,000, and that was a Google search. I was like, whoa, whoa, that's pretty nice. That
was an anomaly. For me, that was anomaly, 100%. Yeah. Because usually it's your
meeting people in person. I mean, people have a free drawing, you know, win a free
session and everybody wins. And then I try and, you know, qualify them in a phone
call and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And that's funny. We were
talking about trying things and they don't work. I knew it would stop working and
it's not, that doesn't work for me anymore. So I'm working on some, I don't know
what it is yet, but I'm still like the referral cards of this lady. I mean, if
that drums me up one other eight under $8 ,000 sale or $2 ,000, $4 ,000 sales, I'll
be a static. - Yeah, you're just experimenting. Do you happen to know your average
sale? - I want to say, I always tell people it's like 2 ,000, but when I go in
and look at it, I think it's a little bit higher. So it's like 2 ,500.
I've had a slower year this year for personal reasons, but I'd have to go back and
look, but it's definitely thousands. What are your thoughts on that? I need to do
more.
I'm like finally going like, you actually know what you're doing. Your stuff looks
good. Okay, that's a very strong self -concept. I know what I'm doing. It's my
grandson says long, long, long, long, long, long time. But yeah. But all of a
sudden, I mean, people have been telling me forever, like with Jess, like, oh, your
work's good. Okay, well, charge you $35 because you know, right. Right. What do you
do? Have you ever run into a situation where a client says, because we all of you
sell wall art and albums and a lot of it? Have you ever run into a situation
where a client has been like, Well, my walls are already decorated. I don't need
any wall art. How do you approach that. I have a digital package that makes me
happy. I actually make more money off of it. Digital package or you can sell
albums. Katie, what are your thoughts? So I walk around the house with them and I
say, "Are you tied to this fish hanging on the wall?" And then they'll be like,
"Actually, no. Let's take that down. Problem solved."
Yeah, I guess it's like if they say their walls are already decorated. I would say,
OK, what's the problem? Let's let's look at it and redecorate.
Isn't it time to redecorate? And I have a question for Katie. Do you go to
everybody's house? Um, I go to most people's houses if I can.
Yes. I like that. OK. Yeah, service. That's just I'm happy to tell them that I
could suggest something else for their wall. - Right. - Yeah, so sometimes I meet on
Zoom and I kind of walk them through taking pictures of their wall, but I really
prefer to do it myself because like I said, I like to take care of my clients and
it sort of feels like homework, but I'm like, no, not like that, no, put it, you
know. - Now, and I've done that, but I never thought about just saying it's an
offer, like I'm happy to, you know, like including it in all the things that I
offer, 'cause-- - Yeah, and I wouldn't say like, would you like me to come over? I
would just say, I would like to come over. - Oh, I love that. It's just an
assumption. I am coming over because it's service. Yeah, and honestly,
if you've ever been the consumer of a high -end service, I appreciate that.
Like, I actually want you to tell me what to do because then I don't have to make
decisions and I'm happy to write that check. Yeah. Okay.
I'd like to ask you guys what your thoughts are, but let's talk about marketing. So
how are you getting clients right now? We talked about how you got that client, but
in general, what are your thoughts on marketing? And let me tee this up by saying
what I teach inside of Elevate. You've all been in eight for several years. All of
you are one -on -one clients of mine for years. I teach offline marketing and online
marketing. Offline marketing is when you're out meeting people or referrals or in the
community. Online, I refer to as either social media or your website and SEO.
If we just like those are the broad categories, obviously, we've deeper, but just
for the sake of this episode, how are you getting clients right now and what are
your thoughts in general on just how you get them more so,
like is it more offline, is it more online? Katie?
- So mine is definitely a mix. Last year I remember trying to figure out where are
my best clients coming from and there wasn't one track that was like oh this is it
just stick with this it really could be from anywhere. I personally really try to
use the flexibility of my job to stay away from my computer because I don't want
to be sitting at my desk all day like that doesn't fill my soul and I want to
meet people in person even though I'm actually an introvert. I'm an introvert but I
don't want to spend my life in front of my computer. Right. So for me it's finding
those people but the biggest thing is calling them. I mean and it's hard. I used
to like my heart would race before I would call potential clients. I was so so
nervous and I still have to push myself and be like, Katie, call your leads.
I just hear like that little voice inside my head, call your leads. I mean, and
that's really it. I mean, I have a couple leads today that I, I know I really,
I'm like, I really need to follow up with that person. Like I think they're legit
going to hire me. Like just call them and go make the sale. You, you and I have
actually talked about this. We've talked on Voxer and you've said, Heather, this is
what I'm doing today. I'm calling people and I love that about you because it's
not, I don't, it's not anyone's favorite thing to do. I don't think and you, you
do it anyway. Why? How? Because I distinctly remember that $23 ,000 sale.
I remember the day I was going to sit down and I was going to go do some social
media marketing, quote unquote, which never got me anything. And I said, my little
voice in my head said, "No, call that lead. You have a lead, call them." And I
was like, "Ugh, fine." And you did, and it led to $23 ,000.
Yeah, and I will say almost every single time. Once in a while, I call a lead
that's just, it's not a good fit, and it's not an enjoyable phone call. But 99 %
of the time, I really like getting to know people on the phone. I met a new
client last night on the phone who had won an auction I donated. And we had the
greatest conversation. I just think it's really fun to meet new people and expand my
network and I just love it. Would you say that that's maybe your number one
contributor to success.
Calling people. Yeah, like just talking to people. I mean, and like I said,
I like, I have trouble at big groups like I don't like big networking, especially
if there's no structure, like that's not my thing. But I if I know someone's
interested, I can call them. And, and that's that yes.
- Yes. - I think that's the most important thing I do. - Yeah, and you're an
introvert. That's just important to know. Actually, I believe we have two introverts
and one extrovert here. So it doesn't matter how you label yourself.
It's just meeting people, meeting people, getting out in the community. You know how
we always say in order to grow a business, you just have to meet people, tell them
you're a photographer and make an offer. and you took that seriously, and you went
and did it, and now here you are. - Yes, and I will say too, and I think you've
mentioned this, Heather, when you're nervous about talking to somebody, it's because
you think you're performing and you have to prove yourself or,
you know, I don't wanna say show off, but like put up a front. Like when you have
thoughts or an approach like that, going to be like sweating bullets because you're
making it mean something about you. That's it. Yeah. If you come to the conversation
thinking about how can I serve this client? What can I do to help them?
And that is what you're thinking about. Like the nerves will settle because it's not
about you. It's about the client. Brilliant. That's exactly right. If you're if
you're thinking If you're nervous, you're probably thinking about yourself, but if
you're thinking about how can I serve this person, you're curious. And then people
love that because then they feel like they're being heard and you're offering a
service. Yes. Okay, perfect. Jess, how are you primarily marketing or getting clients
now? I would be that fellow introvert except when it comes to my business because I
think People assume introverted means shy and they don't want to talk about it. I
will talk about my business all day to anyone. This year, consistently,
it has been SEO from Google, repeat clients, and then silent auctions.
Probably you're tying with my book project where clients are coming in from that. So
you're also meeting people? Yes. In the community? Yeah. Not at networking events,
nothing formal. Most of the time I'm meeting people just because I see their dog or
I'm wearing something with a dog on it and we start talking. Event -wise it's my
pet photo with Santa events that I run and then an anniversary party with a local
pet store that also does those pet photo with Santa events and that's about the
only events that I do. What do you tell yourself as an introvert when you know
that meeting people and getting out there is how you get business. How do you,
what's the self -talk there? - To me, being an introvert, it's that I get drained if
I do too much peopeling, but I am happy to talk to these people because they have
dogs and I love dogs and they love their dogs. And so if it's a chance for me
just to go and make them feel special or their dog feel amazing because I picked
them out of a crowd that they were cute. It's easy because people are going to
talk all day about their dog. I will, they will, we're instant friends. Okay, I
think that's the thought. It's easy. When you think something is easy, you will take
action to execute. If you think something is hard or I can't do it because I'm an
introvert, then of course you're going to hesitate. So you're just telling yourself
better thoughts. Yes, because it feels better to think these people want to talk to
me about their dog than it does to feel like oh I'm chasing them down I'm
bothering them they think I'm creepy because I'm just approaching them randomly it's
never any of that never no Marcy how are you marketing these days so like I say
it's been kind of a weird year just because of stuff that's happened nothing bad
bad in life but just busy in life um but I didn't do as many events this year as
I've done in the past. And I don't not like events, I'm the extrovert, but I'm
like, I don't like to talk about myself. I'll talk about everything else. So this
year I just was like kind of looking really quickly. I've met of the 20 some
shoots I've had this year, 17 of them are because I met somebody somewhere. So
I've, the long haul really works. It's kind of crazy started, you know, you know,
associated with the dog training place and did graduation photos and mini session or
like holiday mini sessions and fall stuff and drawings and whatever and kind of got
a following. And so people over time have reached out to me over that. Others have
just been I've met somebody and give them a card and they like my $8 ,000 sale. My
other sale that I met because I'm old, I go to this place called osteo strong and
she has a little dog there and I gave this card to this 80 year old lady and she
gave it to her husband and her husband called and I want to say that was like a
$4 ,000 sale. I mean, I was pretty happy. And then I do the giveaway, the giveaway
is the drawings. So, and that's, I obviously have to meet somebody to gather the
information. So it's the meeting people. And it's the meeting people. So you just
got to come up with something that makes for me, makes me happy about what I'm
doing when I meet them because sometimes I'll set up a little booth and take photos
and I take my photos for free and they get a little piece of paper that says go
here and if you want to buy them, buy them, I don't charge them to take it
because I don't want to deal with the money at the event because I mean anybody
that does this knows you can farm through hundreds of dogs in a short amount of
time. They can go back and scroll through the photos, but you capture their email
- Right, so that's why I do that. And then sometimes I do the giveaways. The
giveaways haven't worked so much. So like I've said, I've got to come up with some,
I mean, they're going to change what I'm giving away, like make it a bigger value
than what it is.
But yeah, I'm working on that right now, but so far it's 100 % in person. 100 % is
where I get to visit. - 100 % in person meeting people. And you, all of you have
learned the structure of pricing and how to mark up products and then you just
experiment with products, right? You experiment with what you like to sell, what the
clients respond to. A lot of photographers think they need the perfect pricing or
packaging, but tell me what really shifted things for you to get you to the point
of an $8 ,000 sale. Having the product priced right so that they can spend that
much money actually is what it is. I mean, I have to add up. I mean, you know, I
have packages, but I don't care if you get a package or not. It's a talking point.
I want people to understand that, like, this is what it costs. Then I'll make your
own package when you're done. But, you know, you're not walking away with a lot of
stuff for $1 ,000. You can get a package with me for $1 dollars and you'll get
something, but you know, it's not, it's not, but it's just having it priced right.
And for me, being willing to tell people, well, I doubt willing to tell people
like, you know, how many options I'm not gonna make you have blanket with your
dog's photo on it. It's like, just, you know, just if you that's what you want,
tell me and I'll find one for you. But for right now, this is what I've chosen to
sell, because I love these products, I love the vendors. And I believe for me, like
the folio box or of the album, you're gonna keep it forever. It's like you don't
want a thousand photos on your, I don't want a thousand photos on my wall of my
dog. I want one statement piece, but I want all those photos so that I can look
at them. - Right, so it has to add up. - Yes. - Okay, Katie,
tell me in terms of how much of this has been mindset for you to go from $100
sale to a $23 ,000 sale. Obviously, the products have to add up to the number.
But how much did Mindset play a role in this for you? 100 % Mindset,
nothing else. Okay, I love that. Say more.
No, well, if you're listening to this podcast, you've probably heard Heather teach
about the model and how we create our results. And I firmly believe in it.
I mean, it's so simple, but if you break it down to like the most basic elements,
I can't pour a glass of water if I don't believe I can do it. Yes.
And that's what it's like that it's as simple as that, honestly. So it's right. So
somebody gave you the pricing strategy and said, Katie, here it is, just price it
at this, sell these products, and then you will, you know, make a million dollars
or whatever. What you learned was that was not enough because you, if you didn't
believe that you could have a $23 ,000 sale, it would never happen,
no matter how you had the pricing structured. Right. I mean, I agree. You need to
have prices, like Marcy said, That add up to a high sale if you want to have a
site high sale I mean, you're probably not gonna send you're not gonna sell 3 ,000
wallets, you know
Right, you know, you have you have to set yourself up for success, but If you
don't believe that you can sell that or that it's valuable or that someone would
want that Then you won't sell I really think if you believe in your product, you
can sell anything. Oh my gosh, I am with you 100%. If you believe in something,
you could sell it, period. But you have to believe. You have to believe in the
product, the service, the value, the pricing. You have to believe that there are
clients out there ready, willing, and able to pay. Because if you didn't have that
thought, I promise you, you would never get an $8 say I'll let alone 23. - Right.
- Jess, what are your thoughts on this with mindset? - I was gonna say it is, it's
entirely mindset because all the numbers can add up, all the pricing can be
profitable. You can love what you're selling, but if you don't believe that your
clients are gonna love it too and that they're like, they're excited to give you
money. It doesn't work. I love when I get a client who spends a lot and thanks me
for it. And they're so appreciative and you're like, you know what, what I'm doing
matters. And it's okay to let people pay for it however they want. If it's on
multiple credit cards, if you want to pay me in cash or check, I don't care. Let
the people give you money because it makes them happy and I'm not going to be a
happiness stopper. (laughs) - Oh my gosh. I'm not going to be a happiness stopper.
Just let them give you money. but you have to believe it's worth it or you're
gonna block it. - Entirely, yeah. - Yeah. - And a cell in your head. - Okay, there
has to be a point for all of you where you didn't believe that.
You thought if you had the packages and the pricing like many photographers and then
at some point you picked up on, well, wait a minute, I have to shift something in
my thinking in order to make this happen. So I wanna wrap this up by asking
essentially what would you tell either yourself when you were in that thinking or a
new photographer or not even a new photographer just any photographer that's really
struggling because they want to get their strategies right with their pricing. What
one piece of advice would you give them Katie?
So the biggest thing I would say is But the quality of your work is not what
determines your success.
And obviously, if somebody is asking you interested a lead,
they've seen your work, they know it's good. And you know, it's all subjective too.
I actually had a client one time ask me, "Is my work as good as this other well
-known photographer in town. And I said to him, "Well, what do you think?" Right?
You're the client. You tell me, you know? Because if you value it,
then it's good enough. And obviously, I'm always learning and learning from Nicole's
"Hair of the Dog" and lots of educators. I love to learn new strategies and try
new things and not just like stick with What I learned 10 years ago. I've come a
long way and I think most photographers naturally are driven to do that and the
more they shoot the better they get But there there definitely is a fallacy a lot
of photographers believe that oh my work's just not good enough That's why I'm not
successful But you can look at some very successful photographers out there who are
who have what I would consider mediocre at work as they're selling their service and
they're taking care of their clients and they believe in what they have to offer
and it's good enough like, and it sounds kind of like, oh,
I must like not really care. I really do care a lot. It's just that it's
subjective and it's not, it's actually not the number one most important thing. I
love that. Excuse me. So what you're saying is the work isn't as important as we
think, we're putting maybe too much weight on it. And we also put a little much
too weight on the perfect pricing structure or strategy. And so we think if we
improve our work and we get the pricing right, then we will be successful. And what
you're saying is you can be successful at any point based on how you think about
it. - Exactly. - Perfect. Marcy, what are your thoughts on that? - I would say that
what I've how I think now is that and I believe this that I'm an expert in my
field for pet photography not all the other areas of photography but for pets and
that I'm providing a service and a solution for what they what they want I mean
just you know like is it the end of life or documenting a period in time but I'm
here I offer a service and a solution and I know exactly what to do. I love those
thoughts. Everybody should write down those thoughts and then just think them, right?
Just write them down and think those thoughts. For you, what would you tell someone
in terms of their mindset and they're really latching on to the perfect pricing or
getting how it's structured or the systems you use? What would you tell
comfortable. You have to price it to be profitable and there's tons of information
in these groups out there to do it.
Ask me the question, how do you say that? How would they need to think about it
when they're really hung up on, but I have to get the perfect pricing? There is no
perfect pricing. There is no perfect package. Like I said before, it's a talking
point to get started and I'm constantly changing my packages. I look at people and
go, Are you guys nuts? This is the best deal ever if you get all I mean I'll be
happy and do you know much stuff you're getting and how long it's going to take me
to do this Why what's wrong with you? I never say that obviously right right think
that about the packages, but it's not I Can't read everybody's mind So I'm going to
accommodate the best I can and after done having done it for a while and trying
different things I get a feel for what people like in my area because they've seen
what I do so So So, and I've decided to go to the higher end, like I say with
the farmhouse frames.
And I'd only show higher end products now. Yes, because you believe there are people
already willing and able to pay. Well, yeah. And I mean, it's like, it's beautiful.
It's like, why would you want to put anything else on your wall but that? That's
it. You view these things as a no -brainer. This is a no -brainer.
The price and the value and what you get. This is how I feel about Elevate. I
don't understand why everybody doesn't join all of the photographers. To me, it's a
no -brainer, but I set it up that way so that I could have that very solid belief
and then it makes it easier to share and invite people because I never feel like
I'm selling.
Jess, what are your on this. What would advice would you give yourself 10 years ago
that you can make this whole business thing look however you want it to look?
You're going to hear a different way to price a session fee, a product credit,
structure your pricing this certain way, have Alucard, have collections. It does not
matter. You can set your boundaries. You can run it exactly how you want it to be.
And some people will like it. Great and some people won't and that's fine go make
room for the people who are going to come in and Make my business enjoyable because
it's how I want it to look and it's the kind of plants that I want to work with
so take everything you hear and toy with it get data give it some time to
implement but if it doesn't feel right to you just because someone told you to
price it at this way or structure it like this you don't have to do that and when
you trust your gut and you listen to what feels good and what's working for you,
then you're going to be successful. I love that because what you're saying is
there's no right or wrong way. There's just how you want to structure it. Entirely,
yes. I love the way my coach says this. She says, "You should always be talking to
your best client, not trying to convince your worst." And she doesn't mean like
worst client. She just means a client that doesn't fit. You should always, if you
love it and it's a no brainer for you, and you want to do it a certain way, then
you just talk about it, then you are naturally attracting your best client. But
where people get hung up two places, everything has to be right, it has to be a
certain way, and I have to convince people. No. And that's all thinking how you
think about it. Right. And when you're, you are going to hear no. And sometimes
when we're doing a more boutique model, you're going to hear no more often. But
it's a good thing because it's just proof that your processes are working. You put
these boundaries and these rules into place to have people weed themselves out.
Everything is always working. So even when you hear no, it's good. It's fine. It's
good. It's not a problem. Perfect. That's a great way to end, Jessica. Can you let
us know where we can find you? My website is barkandgoldphotography .com and I am on
Facebook Bark and Gold Photography and Instagram at bark and gold photography. And
that's a play on Pittsburgh because we live in Pittsburgh. Yes. And we have that's
what we say. Well, we don't say bark and gold. We say black and gold for our
sports teams. So if you've never heard that, that's where that comes from. But
people in Pittsburgh will understand that reference. Thank you. Marcy, where can
people find you? It's a really original name Marcy Frye photography .com
Marcy ie fry. That's the catch And then Facebook is the same and then Instagram is
just Marcy Frye photo Yes, and obviously I'll link all this up in the show notes
if anyone wants to check out your websites. What about you Katie?
And I'm also very original Katie Carmichael .com And it's Carmichael rhymes with
pickle.
Yes, I remember that. So what's interesting is that I'm the same way it was
weddingsbyheather .com. I don't have my site there anymore. But it was like, I didn't
consider myself terribly original. I was just, I love photography. I have a passion
for doing this. And I just assumed I could figure it out. If you wanted to do
something, you can just figure it out. Everything else is just a bunch of
overthinking. In its simplest form, what would it look like to just go out there
and get clients? I appreciate your time so much. I'm sure everyone found this
valuable. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having us.
Hey!
