Podcast Ep 329 - What's holding you back? How to Uncover Decades of Limiting Beliefs with Kerry Jordan

In this episode of Flourish Academy Podcast, Heather Lahtinen and Nicole Begley is joined by returning guest Kerry Jordan to explore the impact of mindset on sales success. Kerry shares her ongoing struggle with selling private portrait photography services, contrasting it with the ease she experiences in her commercial pet photography business.

Together, they dive into how limiting beliefs, often rooted in childhood, can block potential and create discomfort around selling high-ticket items. This episode highlights the importance of acknowledging and shifting those beliefs to embrace sales with confidence and create personal and professional breakthroughs.

Show Notes:

1. Kerry’s Sales Struggles:
   • Kerry shares her ongoing challenges selling private photography services to affluent clients.
   • She contrasts the discomfort she feels in private portrait sales with the ease of her commercial pet photography business.
2. Mindset & Sales Success:
   • Discussion on how thoughts and beliefs, particularly those formed in childhood, can limit professional growth.
   • Kerry reflects on how her feelings of being an "outsider" with affluent clients affected her confidence in sales.
3. Breaking Through Subconscious Blocks:
   • Heather and Nicole guide Kerry through understanding the subconscious beliefs holding her back from fully embracing sales.
   • Insights on how past beliefs can be acknowledged and shifted to foster confidence and connection in sales.
4. The Power of Curiosity in Business:
   • Exploring how curiosity can help overcome fear and discomfort in sales.
   • Kerry’s journey to introspection, discovering how her past experiences shaped her feelings, and the shift from hesitancy to empowerment.
5. Actionable Strategies:
   • Techniques for photographers and business owners to shift their mindset, overcome limiting beliefs, and confidently sell luxury services.
   • Using curiosity and self-awareness as tools for personal and professional growth.

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Connect:

Heather Lahtinen: Website, Facebook, Instagram

Nicole Begley: https://hairofthedogacademy.com/

Kerry Jordan: https://www.furandfables.com/my-story/

TRANSCRIPT

In today's episode of the Freedom Focus Photography podcast, we are bringing back our recent guest, Kerry Jordan, and Heather Lahtinen is joining me on this new podcast episode in which we are diving in to some of the limiting beliefs that Kerry had on her last podcast.

If you listen to the last one, you remember that she was a portrait photographer and then she went when she moved fully into commercial pet photography. And there's nothing wrong with that.

We're not trying to convince her to add portrait work back into her business, but there was some major limiting beliefs that came up during that conversation that are not unique to her.

A lot of people in our audience, a lot of people listening, you might even have these limiting beliefs that it is kind of yucky or you're feeling kind of like not feeling great selling your work.

So if you have any limited beliefs around sales, around selling your private work, you definitely want to listen to this conversation because in this 40 -minute conversation, we dug down into something that has been really plaguing the subconscious of Kerry for the past 40 years.

And by golly, I think we actually cleared it or we certainly made a lot of work because now we figured out what it was that was causing her so much stress around this selling.

So stay tuned. I'm Nicole Bagley, a zoological animal trainer turned pet and family photographer. Back in 2010, I embarked on my own adventure in photography, transforming a bootstrapping startup into a thriving six -figure business by 2012.

Since then, my mission has been to are photographers like you, sharing the knowledge and strategies that have helped me help thousands of photographers build their own profitable businesses. I believe that achieving $2 ,000 to $3 ,000 sales is your fastest route to six -figure businesses,

that any technically proficient photographer can consistently hit four -figure sales, and no matter if you want photography to be your full -time passion or a part -time pursuit,

profitability is possible. If you're a portrait photographer aspiring to craft a business that aligns perfectly with a life you envision, then you're in exactly the right place. With over 350 ,000 downloads,

welcome to the Freedom Focus Photography Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. I am your host, Nicole Bagley. And today we have a special podcast with not one,

but two incredible guests, actually so much that I'm going to like kind of back away from this conversation. I don't know. I might still interject a little bit here and there, but I don't want too many cooks in the kitchen.

And I brought in our heavy hitter mindset ninja. Heather Lawton is here. Coming back to the podcast is Kerry Jordan from Fur and Fables Photography. You guys probably just heard her very recently on episode 253,

where she was talking about her kind of move from doing portrait work into the pet photography commercial space and what that looked like. And it was a really great conversation.

And during that, we had a couple mindset, drama things that kind of came up. And Kerry was so lovely talking about them and sharing.

And I know so many of you guys have very similar thoughts to come up to. And so she was willing to come back to the podcast to bring the three of us together. And we're going to dig into some of these beliefs.

So I feel like we need a little ding, ding, ding, like boxing bell. We're ready. Heather, Kerry, welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

So, Kerry, it's nice to meet you. I actually just met you, like, in person, but I listened to your podcast, and I was so curious. I just, it's just that I have a lot of questions.

That's all. There were a lot of things that came up. So maybe you could, for anyone listening to this episode, kind of give us the 30 ,000 foot view of private clients to commercial.

So set the stage. Yeah, so sure, as Nicole said, when we were talking on the last podcast, what came up, had tried mentoring,

I tried in -person sales, I had tried online sales, I tried going to people's homes, I tried everything, and nothing was sticking.

So, excuse my dogs, just being a bit of a diva. And yeah, it just never felt comfortable to me. And in fact, it felt uncomfortable, Whereas commercial side,

for some reason, I just feel like I'm flying and it feels like this is the thing that I should be doing. Okay, take me back to these private clients. You said you did everything like the coaching,

the mentoring, the courses and nothing just stuck with you. Why do you think that is? So the thing that I have come up with myself so far and we touched briefly on it was I grew up in quite an important.

Momentary break for nap time, tuck in. Tuck them in. She's going to have to tuck them in. Yeah, got it. That's fun. Those are you guys listening right now, too. I mentioned this to Kerry before we got to started.

Like, none of this conversation today is to dissuade Kerry from continuing to go all in on her commercial, her commercial goals. I think it's great. I think it's awesome. If that business model works well for her,

awesome I like none of us we don't want to change her her path but we wanted to kind of shed light on some of these thoughts because I know a lot of you guys might struggle with similar thoughts and and we also want to clear them for carry because who knows when you clear these thoughts what is possible even if she sticks with just the commercial stuff um so anyway that's why we're doing this year so just wanted

to put that public service announcement has been out there that none of this is saying that she needs to change and go back to private clients. We just want to dig through these thoughts. So Kerry, go back to you.

Yeah, growing up kind of more on the money conscious money concern scale. Yeah, exactly. So we really had to make choices of,

you know, what we were going to buy on a sort of weekly basis. And I think that that sort of the, you know, luxury for us was, you know,

having a very cheap meal out. And so what I have come up with when I've been digging through my own money blockages is that I see the final prints and upselling as a luxury.

Even though I was fine there was something, there was a, there is definitely a block there about the upselling. So selling wall art, selling canvases, you know,

selling books, that kind of thing. It was there that I was getting really stuck. Because you have those in the luxury category. And so luxury items were just not an option for you growing up,

correct? Correct. Yeah. So that means it couldn't be an option for them or is it like you just didn't feel comfortable? purchase something then that's great it was how i i wasn't able to push those sales on them it was my communication with them so i would go through this is what you can have but it always felt disingenuous somehow maybe i didn't believe that it was a necessity,

it felt like I, yeah, it didn't feel truthful. The selling didn't feel truthful to me as in this is what I should be doing. And I think I said on the last podcast,

if I could just give them the stuff, I would. And obviously that's not a great career move. Yeah, that doesn't build a business per se.

Exactly. Right. That's how I was feeling. And if I could have done something around pundling everything up with just the session fee, and I didn't have to do anything else, that probably would have been easier for me.

But the upsell, it felt, yeah, it felt disingenuous. I just couldn't figure out why. And that's probably why I didn't get to a point where I was earning a certain amount by doing the upselling.

Oh, for sure. And when we have the language of I'm pushing, you said, I don't want to push this on them, then you're making it sound like you are forcing them to do it. So that's part,

and that's not who you are. I mean, I know that's not who you are. So that could be part, not all, but part of why it feels disingenuous. Because if you have the thought, I'm pushing this on them,

and that's just not who you are, it's not going to feel congruent. But I just wonder, if you could go back, just like, put your mind there to a time when, And I did sell.

So it's not like I never sold anything, but it never felt natural, whereas the commercial side feels natural. And so, yeah, I still don't know what that separated.

Why do you think the commercial side feels natural? Where I got to on this was I feel like I'm helping. So this isn't a necessity as such. It's more a business need.

And I worked for 20 years in the city. So, you know, I saw how business works and what their need was and marketing and advertising and things like that.

So for me, it's, it's, it's something that's going to help their business. So that feels easy for me. So I can see how I'm helping. I know I'm good at it. I know that I can organise the shoot.

There's not very many people doing what I do in the UK at the moment, and it feels much more natural. And I am wondering if the portrait side never felt like a business to me.

And that's another sticking point maybe, whereas this feels, business to business feels like a real business. Whereas business to like portrait for some reason,

I don't know why it didn't feel proper. Well, I think one thing we dug into last time that seemed to be an aha with the difference here was the business to business.

There was a very immediate, tangible benefit where it was like, I give you great pictures, you sell more stuff. where the tangible benefit for portrait work portrait on this but maybe not feeling because I felt uncomfortable I felt like I wasn't doing a good job so maybe it's the the fact that if I felt confident it would have been easier but because I didn't feel confident it felt a little bit like I wasn't doing it

right so there was a I'm why does this feel uncomfortable Okay.

What's the thought that's driving that confidence? You feel confident because you're thinking? I wonder if it's, it is because there's not a huge amount of people doing what I do in the UK. So there's no one really to compare me to.

So there are some awesome, like I know at least two or three women who are doing this and specialising in pets,

whereas there are a lot of others doing pet portraits and commercial and weddings and other stuff. So maybe it's that. But also, I feel a connection with the companies.

So I go on a journey with them and I build a relationship with them. So maybe this is something. I, you know, I have a conversation and it's not just me turning up for a shoot,

it is a long -term journey. I've had commercial clients for nine years now. So most of them keep coming back. Whereas with the pet portraits, I did have some people who kept coming back and were really lovely supporters.

But it was pretty much, you turn up, you do the shoot, that's it. And then it goes from that to sales straight away. So I can't, I now can't remember what the question was. No,

that's okay. you're answering it. So I asked you what, what's driving the feeling of confidence? And you said, well, there's not much competition. You're helping them. You're connecting.

You're on a journey. You're building a relationship, which I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but all of those things lead you to feeling very comfortable in your own skin. So you're able to talk about pricing and send them an invoice and accept the money.

Is that correct? Yeah, that is, that is true. And what you have just said sparked something actually. I, and again,

I have no idea how all this links together. But I was quite a nerdy kid at school and, you know, I didn't have very much friends and I liked geeky things and, and I've always felt like a little bit of an outsider.

And I do feel like when I was trying to sell, it was like I was playing this persona and it was not part of who I was on the private client stuff.

I felt like that outsider again, that's, you know, that geeky kid who was like at the school wall hoping that somebody would say hello to me. Whereas, well,

for whatever reason with the commercial side, I feel comfortable in my own skin, and I can actually be a nerd. You know, I put it all out there and it is like,

I get excited and I'm not afraid to show that even, like, it's, even though I'm professional, it doesn't mean boring. You know, you don't have to have this real rigidity to the shoots and things like that.

And it is very much, you either feel uncomfortable and nerdy and like a bit of an outsider and uncomfortable.

Whereas with the commercial side, it's very much, you know what I can do. You book me, you pay me. That's it. Yeah, you're feeling very genuine when you're working with the commercial clients,

right? Yeah. Yeah. And you had mentioned earlier that you feel with the private clients disingenuous. And that's just so interesting what we do from those two different perspectives when you are feeling disingenuous like oh this isn't really me and i'm i'm an outsider and i don't fit in and then you start to feel really uncomfortable i wonder so you've literally just sparked something off if i feel uncomfortable because

that's not something that I would have been able to afford and I am uncomfortable with the fact that they are buying these big ticket items because that's a block in me.

A hundred percent yes, Kerry. If you feel like you can't afford it or you wouldn't spend the money, guess what that equals. Let's do a little math equation here for these clients.

If I feel uncomfortable and disingenuous, maybe it's because I wouldn't spend that money and I don't know what that's like which means guess what I can't relate to you if I can't relate to you guess what I don't fit in I'm an outsider and what I'm telling myself I'm an outsider I don't fit in I can't relate this is disingenuous it is perfectly reasonable to think that you would feel uncomfortable in those situations

and therefore hesitate on, you know, any level, like sharing the pricing or working up the invoice. And then the result is, you know, lower sales than what could be.

I mean, I know you said you were selling things, but it could have been so much more and also led you to leave that behind. But it,

but like, what if it was just because of your thoughts, not because you're obviously good at what you do, obviously, right? You take, I scoured your website, okay, and your Facebook,

and you'll see a whole bunch of likes from Heather. That's me. So obviously, you're really good at what you do. And you have, I'm going to call these, so for anybody who can't see us,

I'm holding up two hands, I'm going to show you these two different models. One model with the commercial clients is, I know what I'm doing. I don't have a lot of competition. I'm helping them.

We're forming a relationship. I'm connecting to them. I'm going on this journey with them. They love me. I love them. This is easy. They're a business. They need this. And you feel very confident and comfortable.

When you feel that way, you form these relationships and these connections. You sell a lot of product. You do very well. And then you get, I think you had mentioned this, you develop these relationships where you go on this Jersey.

But it doesn't feel good because, you know, there's this commercial client who's paying you money. It feels good because of what you're thinking. And you're thinking,

I know what I'm doing, I fit in, we have a connection, they're a business, so I don't have to worry about their pocketbook and what they can afford because they clearly have a budget for this.

They need me. I'm helping them sell more, which means I'm adding tremendous value. You have all of these great thoughts. I call them clean thoughts. It's like very clean.

And then as a result, you feel great. And when you feel great, you show up differently. You don't hesitate. You don't worry about what they're thinking. You email the freaking invoice and you're like,

click here to pay. And is that is that correct that model yeah i i so want to say no because you want to believe that you're doing this because it's what i mean i do think that i'm good at it but you'll you fight against the fact that it's just thoughts it's like a a proper internal like Yeah,

pushing and pulling of, no, no, no, it's not just my thoughts. It's not just my thoughts. But it is. It is. You just don't want to admit it. No, because if it were that simple,

then that means we could change them and do something about the other model. And nobody wants to admit that. You just want to say, like, no, these are the circumstances. This is how it is. This is factual.

And that's why this is working. But my job is to dig deeper and look at the thoughts. you.

You landed on it. You love it. And you continue doing it. And the reason we're talking today is to help the other people who are having the thoughts about the private clients, that model that is causing them to struggle and not get the result.

So again, if we look at the model with your commercial clients, it's just clean. And it's just working and it's great. Which means to you, it's just like genuine and easy. So of course that's where I'm going to put my attention.

Now, if you wanted to, I know you don't, but if you wanted to explore the private clients, that model is actually the complete opposite, which is why it feels disingenuous to you.

Remember in the commercial model, you feel like you fit in. But in the private model, you're an outsider. And when you think you're an outsider, it feels no matter what you do,

it's going to feel disingenuous. No matter what you do, because you're the outsider. Your brain assumes no one else should or will,

even though we see evidence to the contrary. It doesn't matter because the brain is stronger than that. So in this client or yeah, in private client model, you're like, this isn't me. I don't fit in.

This is disingenuous. I wouldn't spend the money, which leads you to feel uncomfortable, which means your action that you take is, you know, half -hearted.

It's disingenuous. It's filled with hesitancy. Like, oh, are you sure you want to get this frame for $2 ,000?

Okay, you're not saying that. I call that your unintentional sales pitch because you might be saying, hey, this frame starts at $2 ,000 and you might be showing them, right? But here's the message you're sending out like through your energy and your pores.

This is it, okay? I call this the unintentional sales picture. Like, yeah, that's $2 ,000, but that's a lot of money. I would never spend that. That's a luxury item. I can't believe you would spend that much money.

Like, what's up with you? I wouldn't do that. And it's just like coming across in your energy. And then, you know, you stifle your own sales because of it.

And the result is lower sales and guess what a business that feels like garbage you just feel like crap all the time and then we blame it on sales i don't you know i tried the i p s i tried the zoom i tried meeting i tried i tried everything i tried this coaching and that's because you're trying to shift the circumstance so that you feel differently and you're ignoring the thoughts so you tried all these

circumstances and actions and it didn't work, correct? Yeah. And I think, I don't think I was consciously thinking those things because I've only just figured it out.

But the other thing is coming from the background that I did, it's probably the fact that I was in the vicinity of people who could afford that that made me feel uncomfortable as well because I didn't grow up with that kind of money and I again,

because of the circumstances that I grew up in, if I was in their, you know, in their homes, it's like I'm in the homes of somebody who can afford this kind of thing.

I don't belong here. this doesn't this feels weird i don't know how to act i don't know what to say and i'm going to say something stupid and like i don't want to gush too much about their home but their home's gorgeous but that's just normal to them and it's that's that is how i was feeling but the sales definitely subconsciously i was projecting,

I don't understand how people can buy this. You were projecting the outsider energy. Everything, you nailed it. Everything you just said and described made you feel like an outsider then,

and it's extended to now. And no, I know for a fact you weren't doing any of this consciously. None of us are, or we wouldn't do it. I think if we knew, If we were more aware,

then we could just catch these thoughts. So how is this landing for you now that you're becoming more aware? It's actually feeling quite emotional because I think when,

you know, that little girl is obviously still inside me somewhere and I've not been taking care of her because I've just been trying to ignore it. And knowing that she's still there and I've gone into those situations and made myself and her feel very uncomfortable because I've not been working on that sort of side of it is kind of sad.

It makes me, yeah, it makes me feel sad for her. And like, yeah, that little girl that's sort of in everybody, you know, we think that we get rid of these sort of sides of ourselves,

but we really don't. So I don't mind talking about her as if she's still. that you recognize that little girl and you feel compassion for her and that you're looking back and saying,

oh, man, I made her feel unsafe, actually, because it was so uncomfortable. That's what I read down to is safety. Like, it was that little girl was an un, it was not a safe situation because,

you know, you don't belong there, get kicked out of the tribe, then you're star, death and die. And then you, you know, unknowingly, you obviously didn't mean to do this. You resisted her. You ignored her.

You kind of pushed her. You kind of pushed her. not going to beat ourselves up over that.

There's just no point to it because now you know differently, you'll show up differently. So I ask myself, and maybe you'll find this useful, is how can I honor that little girl,

like, and just hold space for her with so much love and compassion and continue to grow and move forward? Yeah,

that's a question. How can you look back at little Kerry about three or four.

And I really recommend that you do this. I printed out on a little Polaroid I have and a little cute little printer and I'm using it as a bookmark. And I look at that little version of myself and I just like hold space for her.

With so much compassion, I say to her, I love you. It's going to be okay. I promise I'm going to keep you safe even when it feels like very unsafe.

I grew up very similar to you, very, very, very poor. Like, I didn't know what a furnace was until like I went to college. I didn't know people had central heat. I didn't know that that was a thing.

I live in southwestern Pennsylvania. It's pretty cold. So I didn't even know how, I didn't know how poor we were until later. But I look back now growing my business and making money. And let me tell you something about Little Heather.

She is not feeling great. She is very uncomfortable. I have to work with compassion and space to hold that room for her and continue to grow like current carry and thinking about future carry,

but we need to bring past carry into this as well. Nicole and I had a podcast recently about our past future selves, but I want you to consider like what that looks like moving forward in light of all that you've uncovered and especially this beautiful component about yourself as a child.

How can I hold space for her and continue to work on what's happening now and focus on how and where I do fit in instead of,

you know, separating myself? So one of the things that I have been attempting to do whilst doing a lot of self.

It's taking time to acknowledge those feelings rather than react to them. So I think there's a difference between reacting and responding.

And so I will sit with them and feel them rather than just letting them overtake me. And I think because I know now that feeling of uncomfortableness and where it comes from,

when it comes up, I can acknowledge that and make time for it rather than, as you said,

just going, oh, it's just the sales process, you know, it's the sales. I can now acknowledge that I know where this comes from and why, and it will be less,

I feel. interesting,

adding a level of curiosity. What am I thinking that's causing me to feel uncomfortable in this moment? And how can I just allow it? Because again, if you resist it, it's just going to increase.

So you allow that uncomfortable and just like with care and compassion. Yeah, I feel uncomfortable because this is different. Everything that's new and different is going to feel uncomfortable. And it's okay.

The mistake, mistake alert for most photographers is they think that fear or being uncomfortable Like this is what it's like to feel fear and it's okay.

My coach calls it like processing your emotions, like just sitting with your emotions instead of resisting them. And it sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on that. I hope so.

I've been working on it quite hard. But I loved the word that you used because it's one of my sort of pillars is curiosity and being curious about why I do things,

why I think things and the reason behind them. And I have always been curious about why I couldn't do the sales.

It just never, I never got to the bottom of it. And so I got to a place where I was, I basically said I shouldn't, why should I make things so difficult for myself when I've got an option over here where I feel comfortable.

And so I did. It was, you know, the commercial side feels comfortable. And it's not like I didn't try with the sales, but because I didn't understand where the initial blockage came from,

it just wasn't working. So of course you made the move you did. Why wouldn't you? It was more comfortable and it was easier over here. Anybody, any human would have done the exact same thing because you felt like you couldn't figure it out.

And the reason is you went, you know, into your action line. I always call it the action line. You did all of these things and it still wasn't working and it wasn't fitting. So you're like, okay, I'm going to move over here. But that's because we were diagnosing the wrong problem.

We weren't looking at the thoughts behind it. You were just, I picture you, like, just trying to, like, muscle your way through it. Like, I don't know why I'm going to try all these things and nothing is working.

And so I'm just going to go over here because it's easier over here and it works. And it is, by the way, it is. But it's not because it's easier. It's because of your thoughts around what you're doing,

around the circumstance that you're doing. Okay, this is so interesting. Do you feel like this conversation has given you more clarity on the private client? I've got, yeah,

I've got goosebumps. And I don't. of.

So, and I know that there's a lot of, you know, I've worked through a lot of trauma and things like that. And so I've figured out things that I, why my brain is doing the things that it is,

but knowing like this, this, my school girl, Kerry, who's like the nerdy, like, can't, you know, she doesn't go to rich people's homes is, was in there kind of going,

this makes me feel highly uncomfortable, has been a proper light bulb moment for me. And I do actually still do private clients, but only when they ask me.

And so it's going to be interesting to see how the sales go on that. I actually can't wait for this. You definitely have to let me know because I think it would be great to just practice it,

to allow yourself to feel uncomfortable and just get really curious in your mind and say, to,

or how can I, what can I think to fit in, to feel more comfortable? That's when you turn the frustration into fascination. So get really curious,

turn the frustration into fascination and see what you can learn. But instead, what most of us do is we get frustrated and we're like, I'm out. I'm just like, this doesn't feel good. I'm not doing it.

I like to try to get really curious with my brain like what's the story my brain is trying to tell me in this moment and probably for you it's that you're not safe because this just feels too uncomfortable and if you could just reassure your brain hey I'm safe and I know this is different but I promise we won't die and could you just like you know you want to embrace your brain like could you come along this

journey with me so we can figure this out together but it's always a mistake to resist your brain you want to embrace it and let it know that you're safe. will come out in other areas.

They'll find another way. Yeah, exactly. And then it'll be even harder to unpick because it's come out in a completely random way. Yeah, it gets louder. And so,

yeah, it's, I think it's going to be really interesting. And I'm actually looking forward to just seeing how, recognizing how I feel in those situations.

and now that I am a bit more aware, I can sit with that feeling because before it was just a feeling and I didn't know where it was coming from. And so I could sit with how I felt,

but I didn't know why. So, yeah, it's going to be really interesting. Feelings always come from thoughts. So whatever you're feeling, just ask yourself what you're thinking and get curious.

I want to end with this really quick story. I was photographing a wedding one year, and I walked into this home, I mean, mansion. Okay, I just never in my life had ever seen anything like this.

And I'm walking through the house and my brain is like, oh my gosh, you don't belong here. You don't fit in. And I was like, I hear you, but I think I could get used to this.

If you just give me a minute, you know, let me have my time. And I'm walking about the house and photographing. And we went to leave for the church. And I said, ma, I use your restroom. And I go into the restroom. you know,

it turned out to be like the simplest thing ever. It's a lover. You pull up whatever. It doesn't matter. But my brain was just looking for evidence to show me that I didn't belong. I had to actively work to say,

hey, like, okay, I'm not used to this. This is new and different. But I'm still a person. I'm still valuable and I have worth. And I talked to the bride's dad a couple minutes later at the church.

And he said to me, my daughter tells me you're a mechanical engineer. And I If you think a certain way,

you will always find evidence. That's right. And you will act based on that thought. If you're thinking that you don't fit in, you're an outsider, you're this geeky little girl and all of these things,

your brain is, your thoughts become your results and it will show you that habit. It's a self -fulfilling prophecy every single time. So how could we use this in our favor? Well, your model with the commercial clients is a perfect example of that.

You feel like you fit in, you want to help, it's very genuine, it's all good, all of these things, and then in your result line is money in the bank. You see in your results evidence to support your thoughts.

This is like sometimes it's disturbing and interesting, but it's actually very empowering. Because if that's true, and in this episode we have proven that it is,

then this is great news because all I have to do is change my thoughts and I'll have a different result. Okay, I can do that. I can work on my brain. It's just that every day it's going to offer you garbage and you have to,

you know, pay attention. That's all. I think that's exactly it. It's paying attention and that's why I meditate because it helps me be aware of my thoughts.

It helps me stop the cycle that I tend to get into because I'm aware of it. It's like, oh, there we go again. Exactly.

Thank you so much for sharing all of this. I know that I'm certain that everybody listening found it very useful. Yeah. Thank you, Kerry, for being so open and honest and vulnerable and diving into this with us today.

Well, thank you for unpicking a massive block that I've had for 45 years. 45 years, you know, I always tell people in coaching, like, what would it be worth to you to clear something,

you know, from four decades ago? Like, coaching to me is just priceless. Like, that's just and this is, you know, a 40 -minute conversation. I've had 20 -minute conversations with people that shift average.