Podcast Ep 317 - How photographers kicked me out of the tribe.
In this episode, Heather Lahtinen and Nicole Begley share their early struggles in their photography careers. Heather talks about being pushed out by other photographers, and Nicole shares a tough experience with a bank employee. Despite these hurdles, they both kept going and grew their photography businesses.
Listen in to hear their tips on staying strong, coaching yourself, and turning problems into chances for success.
Show Notes:
- Story of earning $105 from the first mini session.
- The experience of opening a business bank account and facing laughter from bank staff.
- The backlash and scathing emails received from peers.
- Emotional impact and the decision to move forward despite criticism.
- The importance of self-belief and perseverance in the face of doubt.
- Advice on handling criticism and staying focused on goals.
- Encouragement for listeners to believe in themselves and their vision.
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Connect:
Heather Lahtinen: Website, Facebook, Instagram
Nicole Begley: https://hairofthedogacademy.com/
TRANSCRIPT
Hi everyone, this is Heather Lahtinen and from the Flourish Academy and today I'm sharing a conversation with my friend Nicole Bagley about setbacks that happened to both of us early on in our photography careers.
Setbacks that could have ended those careers, but thankfully did not. She was laughed at by a bank employee and I was kicked out of a tribe of photographers.
And honestly, I haven't thought about that situation in a long time. And as I recounted the story, I can remember how painful it was,
but I persevered. And because my goal is to help photographers make more money, I want to teach you how to stay the course in order to create your dream photography business.
I hope that you enjoy our conversation. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Freedom Focus Photography podcast. I am your host, Nicole Bagley, and we are back with Mindset Ninja,
Heather Lottnen, once again on the podcast. Hey, Heather, how are you? I am fantastic, actually better than I deserve. Or what did your grandma used to say? I am doing exceptionally well.
That's it. That's me. Excellent. I love it. So we just wrapped up an Awesome call with our progress labbers, progressors. We need a name for them.
- Yeah. - So yeah, we had our progress lab. Oh gosh, I guess it's been about exactly a month ago. And we had five incredible ladies come together and it was just an incredible experience.
Have we talked about that yet on the podcast? I don't think we've done a full recap of that. - No, but we're planning on it. I think we were getting ready for that to do - Yeah, we should do that. - It was so good, yeah.
- It was really, really good. Truly, you guys, I've taught a lot of retreats and workshops in my years, you know this, but the Progress Lab one is like a whole new level, new level of transformation. That's just really,
just an honor to be part of. So yeah, we were doing a call with them and I just love hearing what they're up to and you leave, here's what happens a lot of times for these workshops,
you go to a conference or you do anything, like you go and you're there and you're in it. And then you get back to life and then life is just like, slaps you in the face. You think you're going to change? Uh -uh,
sucker. Life is like, sit back down and shut up. So this call was to like, see how they were doing after that experience and get right back in the proper lane they need to be in.
And they actually did a really good job. They were all like the, The insights that they've had since the Progress Lab to realize when they start to veer off track into those old habits and old ways is I mean just proof of what is possible and like that's the stuff that the compound effect that will carry on Okay,
that's actually a really important point to note is that we teach something we call self -coaching So we teach them how to coach coach themselves. We work with them while we're with them,
obviously in person, but I don't think that's enough. So we've developed this process of teaching them how to self -coach. So when we were on this call, they were saying things like, "And I realize what I'm doing,
you know, and I can see how," and then they're working on changing their thoughts or their beliefs to shift their action. And if you think about it, like, if I taught you how to make $100 ,000 a year and you knew that you could take that information and make $100 ,000 or more per year for the rest of your life because it compounds over time.
Would that be worth one retreat to you or whatever the retreat costs? This is the same thing except I think it's priceless because if we can teach you to shift your making,
to keep moving forward, to make more progress, and it compounds over time, and you get better at better, at coaching yourself, working through your crap, moving forward, getting stuck,
getting unstuck, and that lasts you forever? What is that worth to you? Besides the fact that you get to eat some really good food, stay in a really fun house, and hang out with a whole bunch of really amazing people for a couple of days,
like in in addition. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, this is not about the progress lab. Just wanted to kind of cheer you guys what we're doing earlier this morning. But we are planning another progress lab in the Panhandle area of Florida,
like a Rosemary Beach 30a, like beautiful, gorgeous homes, likely next May, May 2025. So mark the calendars. If you want to be on our super short list,
send an email to support maybe .com, let us know because, yeah, we're starting to collect like our super short list people that are interested because we've had quite a few people that have wanted to come to one of the past two,
but just didn't work out for dates or whatnot. So we're going to try to get those locked down somewhat soon so that people can make plans. So anyway, what are we talking about today? We are talking about when we started.
I actually, this whole podcast episode started 'cause I was doing some random banking things. Like I was getting a new checking account for Lauren 'cause you know, she needs like an actual real one.
She had like a kid one before and then like Colin needed a different savings account for just different like random little things. So I was doing some banking, like doing adulting things. And I had a memory that popped into my mind.
And that was when I went to the bank to open my very first business checking account. When I started my business back in 2010, it was like June 2010.
So gosh, 14 years ago, just about on the dot, I walked into the bank and I started my business, Heather, without any of my own money,
meaning I didn't go out and get a alone, meaning like I already had, I bought the camera and stuff. And I had a computer, it was a crappy laptop,
but like I had a Canon, I think I had a Canon Rebel at the time. Maybe, you know what, no, I might have invested like a 5D, I don't know, it was like a medium level camera,
it wasn't like the high end, it wasn't a 1D X or anything. Anyway, but After that initial investment of the gear, and not all the gear, I had like two lenses. I had a long lens and a more wide,
like a 70, the 24 to 70 and a 7200 and that was it. Then I went down and I did my first mini session before I had a bank account or my first session.
It might have been a mini session. I don't know. It was $105 and change because my session was $9 and then so it had sales tax. And so I took that one little itty -bitty check down there to open my bank account because I wasn't why was I gonna put my own money I'm gonna go photograph people and earn money for my business to open my bank account the minimum to open a business checking was $100 and I vividly
remember the person I was working with you know how they take your check over to like deposit it takes my check over goes to Deposit it showing it to whoever they were depositing it and laughing.
Oh What laughed? Which I would like to know where they are right now in their life. Yeah, because you're laughing all the way to the bank another one by the way Yeah,
yeah, and I just remember it's being like I Mean, I think even then it didn't let me I didn't let that that like, I know some people it would have wrecked,
you know, that just like they may might have well have possibly like hung up there should like, you know, forgotten about starting a business. Anyway, because maybe they already had doubts and things like that.
All I knew is like, I'm going to make this work because the other option is to go back and work for somebody else and that's not happening. So I didn't let it affect me,
but it still obviously did affect me since I had a random memory of it 14 years later. And I was like, man, can you take me back to that moment and you're standing there and they're you know,
giggling at you is what I feel like like look at her, you know, and what what were you feeling? I think I was kind of shocked. You know how people say and do things that are like you're like,
is this actually happening? I I think that's kind of where I was. Then I went home and I was like more kind of just like, screw you, like I was like mad. - It fueled you.
- Yeah, yeah. - I think for a lot of people, there would be some embarrassment or shame. - Oh, 100%, that could be, I think that could go in multiple ways.
There's either the like, screw you, whatever, like I don't care what you think, watch me. Or it can be like, maybe this isn't the right move. Oh my gosh, they don't believe in me.
So how the heck am I ever going to get this to work? Because some random guy working like an hourly job at the bank doesn't believe in you. Yeah, unbelievable. I think what's interesting is I hear this is I feel like I'm divided.
I feel like this would be these both of these things would happen to be there's something in me that's like, watch me and it drives me and fuels me and I love that. But there, I'm also pretty sensitive.
So there's a part of me, I'm thinking if that would have happened to me that early on that it might have thwarted my growth because I would have been so embarrassed and ashamed.
Like, oh my gosh, they're laughing at me. Like, what is this, high school? You know, it's ridiculous. But it would have, I think it would have More well, you know 20 years ago that it certainly that it would now and it probably would have impacted me more than it did you I feel like you were stronger back then than I was but well I think we had different things that we were learning to cope with Hmm.
So for that particular one I do think would have affected you more because you were more concerned about what people thought way back old Heather Heather 2010 Heather. Yes where my main issues have always been like time scarcity and then,
you know, there's always been a little bit of a imposter syndrome type thing that I've always kind of overcome as well. You know, I think that's a super common one. But I didn't have a lot of the need for the like the people pleasing or the people to like me.
That's never been something that I've been kind of hung up on as one of my things that need to work on. There definitely is still some though, you know, because I don't like conflict, you know,
so who knows. We're taking into it. We're burying all of our soul for you guys on the podcast today. We're getting deep. Yeah, I think but the point here is like, this will happen to most of us some story when you're starting your business,
or maybe even when you've been in it a few years, where someone will say something or do something or something will happen that will cause you to doubt. And the only reason you would feel doubt is if you believed what they were saying,
or at least a little bit, some component of that. And I think that you were able to work through that really quickly, because you believed more in the fact that you would figure this out and make this happen than you did in the doubt,
even if there was a little bit there. So for me back then, I would have been impacted more by that doubt. Because here's the thing, if I use this example all the time,
please forgive me. But if you walked in there and he said to you, hey, I hate your purple teeth, you would have been like, what are you talking about? I don't have purple teeth. Like you would have laughed,
it would have not impacted you in the least. The only reason, reason things impact us is because there's a component we believe. Because you didn't believe it. Yeah, we fear that could be true.
Like there's a little crack in the the armor of like, oh wait, are they right? Yeah, crack in the mirror of the purple teeth for sure. But if you just like, I use that now because in actually one of our elevators said something to me the other,
oh, she texted me and she was like purple teeth. And we, you know, like, and that was our way of saying something happened that I'm just not willing to receive, because I don't believe believe it on any planet.
I just don't believe that that's true. But if you have the tiniest shred of doubt and somebody fuels that, that's when we have trouble. Yeah. Yeah.
100%. Heather, do you have any stories you remember from, gosh, way back early weddings by Heather Daze? My gosh, vintage Heather. Let me think. There were a few things that happened,
but actually This one stands out in my mind, and it was almost 20 years ago. The fact that I remember it, just like you, was like, "There was something there." I was invited to this exclusive group of photographers.
They were having dinner, and I had a friend that was in this group. She'd been in the business a long time. She took me under her wing. She was great. She invited me into this group. They let me in. It was a really, really big deal.
They were all veteran photographers. I was young and new and wide eyed and all of the things. And I went to this right where it was in downtown Pittsburgh and they were asking me what I was up to.
And I said, you guys, I found the most amazing thing. So this was late 2004, early 2005. I said, Google just released this app called Blogger where you could create and they're like,
what's a blog. So blogs did not exist on websites, period. And they were like, what's a blog? And I'm like, it's a web log. They call it a blog for short. And so you could like,
post a couple of photos from every session you took, and it would get people more engaged with your website. Oh my gosh, please know at this time, this was such futuristic thinking,
I might as well have said, we're getting a rocket ship to be on the Jetsons. Like, this was just not heard of and they all scoffed at me. They were like, "What does that even mean?
That's never going to work. It's never going to take off." Who in the world would commit to updating their website every week? Like, "I'll update my website every week." Yeah. Actually,
websites then were not easy to update. No, right. Yeah. You either had somebody or you had to get into code and whatever, it was very complex and they're like, nobody's going to do that.
Nobody updates the website more than once per year and even then, you know. So I was like, oh man, I was like really deflated by that. But I don't know, I left there and I was like,
because I wanted them to accept me and I had this people pleasing thing, I want them to like me. So I was really felt kind of bummed about it. So what I thought was, well, I'll prove it to them and this was not in like a watch me kind of way This is like I actually want to help them because I want to be part of this group Let me show them how this actually works.
Correct. Yeah So I had taken my camera to that dinner and we were standing around and I was like snapping some photos So I created a blog post and I said I got to meet some new photographer friends in Pittsburgh I'm so excited like I mean just nothing but kindness kindness and love.
And I posted the blog. And by the way, because it wasn't a thing, you know, it was like my mom and my aunt Nancy were looking at it. I mean, it wasn't nobody knew it existed. So I sent it to them an email and I was like,
here's a link to a, this is called a blog host. And I wrote, oh, I wish I could find it. I wrote all these things and I like mentioned them and like, he's awesome It was awesome.
So complimentary. I looked up to them so much and I didn't hear anything right away. And I was maybe a week later and I get to my computer and it was like,
I had an email from every single one of them like that came through at the same time. And I was like, well, that's kind of unusual and I opened the first one and it was scathing.
I mean, they were, they were so upset and mad at me that they had a meeting to talk about me. They told me this, we came together as a group to talk about you and they each one of them sent me an email about why this was a problem and I was ruining the industry and I was an issue and this was,
I mean, just attacked me from all angles and they all sent the email at the same time with different words. They all wrote their own emails. They had a, oh my gosh, can you say mortified?
I mean, it was, especially these are your peers in your market. I looked up to them. I looked up to them. It's like the veterans like, and I really desperately wanted them to accept me.
So as I'm reading these emails, I mean, I'm just like falling into my chair And I mean, crying, yeah, crying, like so, so upset because I was actually trying to help.
I was doing something good by like promoting them and showing and every email with some paragraphs, every single one of them sent me paragraphs of like,
this is a problem, we will no longer be accepting you in our group, basically. And here's why. You made us look bad. And one of us had that bag in our hand and it looked like we were drinking alcohol on the side of the street.
And if your goal was to defame us, then you succeed. I mean, wow. And I actually hung on to these emails for a while and then one day Craig said, why do you go back and look at that?
Just delete them. So I deleted them. It was devastating isn't even the word for how that impacted me. Because I thought, not only do they hate me, and I now have no connections or no friends in the industry,
they're going to talk about me. They had a meeting about me. Fine, could that be? It was, and this is the very beginning of my career, the onset.
- Wow. - And yeah, I just-- - So you had a choice to make. - What's that? - You had a choice to make. - I had a choice to make. I didn't know this at the time. I didn't know that that's what I was doing,
but looking back, you're right. It was like, do I crawl into under my covers and hide for the rest of my life, which is what I felt like doing? Or do I use this as fuel?
Do I just pursue it anyway? Oh, and also at that same time, I had said to them, they asked me what my goal was and I'm like, I just want to be one of the best wedding photographers in Pittsburgh. I want to charge $5 ,000 for a wedding.
And they're like, that will never happen. Like, why would you even? That's ridiculous. Nobody's... So a high paid wedding photographer at that time was maybe $2 ,500.
Uh -huh. Yeah, I got married in 2002. Oh, what did you pay? Do you remember? I think it was about like $2 ,500. Yeah, you hired a good photographer I hired like I was only considering the best.
Oh my gosh. I wonder if I hired someone that was Did you hire someone that was mean to me Nicole? I don't know. We'll talk about that after this. It's like actually very possible. There's only a handful of them at the time.
So that's so funny. So yeah, I decided well I wanted I wanted this so badly that I was just gonna move forward even though they said to me Basically,
we hate you. You're ostracized and you'll never get, you'll never figure out. -You were actually physically kicked out of the tribe. -Yeah, physically. Which is the last thing your brain was.
-Actually happened. You were kicked out of the tribe. We eaten by a bear. -Yeah. And it was, it's your brain's worst fear. And it was actually Heather's worst fear as well. I created that blog post so they would like me.
And it had the opposite effect and with the intent to help them like with a servant's heart to like, hey, I want to bring something to the table of value for you 100%.
So it was very demoralizing, you know, and I, I really, and I believed them for a minute. I believed that I was the problem and I had done something so wrong. So I took the blog post down.
Meanwhile, I'm going to guess that the only people who ever saw that post were them because it just wasn't a thing. I know it was your first one, so it's not even like you had a blog following or anybody signed up for your RSS feed.
All right, just was not a thing. Oh my gosh, so yeah, that was a really, really hard thing to have happen so early on in your career.
But now like if current Heather, if this happened to current Heather, this wouldn't phase me in the least, because I would be like, that's about their issues, not me. That's not about me. That speaks more to me.
Right. To them. Now, the friend that I had, the lady friend that brought me into this group was still very kind to me. She was playing both ends of this. And she said to me,
well, I'm sure you can see their point. Like she was trying to defend them. But then she was also saying to me, like, you have to go do your own thing. She was encouraging. Yeah, but she was trying to keep like I'm not gonna burn my friends with these people.
Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, okay So here we are Almost if not 20 years later. Okay. I just want to say not that I'm being petty I am but not a single one of them is still in the business They've all laughed and completely diversified to different things.
That's it. That's a problem. Certainly you can shift. I Would love to call a meeting. I want to call a meeting and we're going to talk about where we are and what we're achieving. No,
it's fine. It probably did at some point fuel me. Yeah. Where I was like, like you said, I love to say, "Watch me. Just watch me create this." But the point is I sure wish current Heather could go back and just whisper and pass Heather's ear and say like it all works out.
It's fine. Just drop into your own belief about who you are. Yes. Yeah. So here's the thing, and I believe this whole hardily, and I know you do too,
that if we have the desire to do something, to explore something, there's a reason. We would not have the desire to have a profitable photography business if we didn't have the ability to make it happen.
Now, that doesn't mean it's going to be smooth sailing. There's going to be things like this that are going to test how much do you want it, that those choices are going to be laid in front of you, do I quit or do I keep going?
And so those are decision points that you have to make. But I think it's really important to have that faith and that belief that if I want to do this, I can make this happen.
This success exist somewhere in this vacuum of a timeline of whatever reality actually is, are we in the matrix? I don't know, whatever,
but it's there. It feels that way. Yeah, yeah, like it exists in some point there. So like, you can get there, but you have to do the work.
And we started to talk about this when we were talking to our progress lab people. And you out something really funny because it was, what was it? It was like one piece of advice as we were wrapping up the call for everyone.
And I said for my piece of advice that the most important thing that we can do is to have the unwavering belief that success is around the corner.
That like we can do this. Like even if it's not around the corner, might it was, I really just said, you have to have unwavering belief that at some point on your timeline, you are going to get this outcome that you desire. We don't know how,
we don't know when that timing is, but if you have the desire, it is done. But you have to believe it, because if you don't believe it,
everything you do, like all the action in the world is not going to lead you to the success that you want. Yeah, nothing will work. It has action, girl. - That was the point I made on the call.
You said this and you were like so intense and you were like, you have to believe and you finished and I said, I want you guys to pay attention to something here. That's coming from action girl, okay?
Even action girl knows that you have to alter your thinking and you have to drop into the belief that it is done so that you can gain that momentum and that energy to just make it happen.
And It is around the corner. We just don't know that timeline, and I actually wrote this down. You said this. This is from you. This is a quote. It says, "Somewhere on my timeline, this is happening." Period.
Action, girl. I love it. And if you really believed that, that you're committing to the process, you're on this journey, and somewhere on my timeline this is happening,
I just wonder if you believed that, if it wouldn't just help you relax a little bit, like you could ease into it. And the funny thing about that is if you relax and you ease into it, it's probably gonna happen faster.
- Oh, 100%. And when you're able to kind of drop into that, I know this is happening. And like the kind of supporting thought that goes along with that is like, hey,
everything I do is an opportunity to get closer. So whether it works, whether it doesn't work, Like what if all these things had to happen to get that the final result?
So like what if you had to get kicked out of the group? What if I had to get laughed at at the bank like You know, it's that part of the process and maybe it is maybe it isn't but if we're gonna sit there and just Ruminate on the fact that somebody laughed at us or somebody didn't see the value in what you were sharing and just like acted Just rudely,
You know, like we could sit and ruminate on that and not move forward with our business. That's a choice. We have free will. We don't have to follow what we want to do. But like, what do you really want?
Like fast forward 20 years, are you going to be happy with that decision? Oh my gosh, I love that. It's like, you will never regret trying, but you will always regret not trying.
So you have to think of the your version of yourself. And I did not have all of these tools back then. But I think almost an atelier, this has just been like in me to push through for the something that I want to create.
Regardless of the circumstances around me, I just decide that I'm going to be the best wedding photographer in Pittsburgh. I just decided I'm going to be the most expensive, the most sought after, and I'm just going to make it happen.
them laughing at me, absolutely needed to happen to fuel that fire, even if at the time it was devastating. It needed to happen. Everything that's happened,
happening that's causing you to feel like, "This is terrible. Nothing is working." It actually has to be happening to get you to the next level. I was working with one of our mutual friends.
She's a one -on -one client, and she was struggling with something, and I said, But you want to take your business to the next level, right? And she's like, Oh, absolutely. And I said, okay, then what if this needed to happen to get you to the next level?
Cause it, it gives, it's giving you the skill set to get there. And she's like, Oh my gosh, I never thought of it that way. Totally reframed her thinking about something that felt kind of negative. And now she's like,
boom, going after, let's go. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I have two thoughts here. Number one, and I say this a lot is like, you know, photographers are starting out and they're like, "I want a six -figure business." If you went from week one,
if I went from that bank and went back home and had a six -figure business, I would burn it to the ground because I didn't know how to run it. You actually have to learn the lessons in order to get the success that you want so that you can maintain the success that you want.
That's number one. The other thing is, I think there's a difference and people need to, Because I can see people listening to what we were saying before. Like you just got to push through and they're like,
well, can I never change my mind about what I want? So I want to talk about this for a minute because there's changing your mind because you're being pulled to something else.
And there's changing your mind because you don't want to push through whatever roadblock you feel is in the way. So can you get real clear as to why you're changing your mind.
Why are you saying, "Okay, maybe I don't want this photography business anymore." If it's because you have something else on the horizon that you're more excited about, great. I am thrilled for you. Go for it.
If you are saying, "I don't think I want this photography business anymore because you're feeling you're not cut out for it," uh -uh, totally different. Yeah, my coach always says, "I don't care what you do, but you better love your reasons." And get very clear on that.
So if you say, "Right, I want to move on to something different because I don't want to do this anymore. It just doesn't appeal to me and this thing over here does," just be really clear that you love that reason. But if you're saying,
"I'm not going to do this because it isn't working and I'm afraid and I don't know how to do it," I just wouldn't love those reasons for myself. Those reasons will lead to regret five or 10 years later. Correct. Correct.
So you have to, I people, um, they try to like delude them. What am I looking for? They're delusional. They try to like trick themselves and do these mental gymnastics to say,
no, this just isn't what I want anymore. Even if on small, rationalizing, it's their conscious brain rationalizing their decision to be like, look, you made the right decision. Yeah.
Yeah. Especially even with things like pricing, or like, I'm going to this model because I want to and this makes more sense for me. Okay, are you or just because you couldn't figure out the other one?
- Or you're scared of the other one. - Right. - You're scared of what people are gonna think of you if you're charging, you know, $3 ,000, $4 ,000, $5 ,000. And again, there's nothing wrong with having a more high -volume business at $1 ,000 a sale.
Like as long as the numbers work and you're making what you wanna be making, selling what you want to be selling. This is my own personal soapbox and pet peeve is when anyone tells anyone that there is one best only way to pressure or one best only way to run your business because it can literally be anything under the sun,
but you need to know what your goal is and what business works for you. Period. Right. You know what this reminds me of is people who say, "Well, I don't like flash. I'm a natural light photographer.
I don't want to learn it. And they have this kind of like bad attitude. Yeah, it's like, I'm better than you because I don't need flash. Yeah, I don't need flash. I think sometimes I'm like, well, is that is that true?
Or is it because you don't know how and it scares you? Okay, there's a difference. So I had a friend, a local senior photographer who used to say that I'm a natural light photographer, but she would tell me she's like, Heather, I don't know flash and it scares me and she's really good.
you know, so she's like, I feel like I don't need to. And I said, but what if you just explored it? Like, how do you know that for certain that you don't like flash? Because right now, you are assuming you don't like it because you don't know it.
How could you know for certain? So she decided to spend some time really learning off camera flash. She did several sessions, we worked through it, and she got pretty good at it.
And then she was like, came back was like a year later. So she she really invested some time in this. And she said, "I do not like flash. I'm a natural light photographer." And I said, "I can accept that." Because you know how to do it and you try to do it and you love your reasons.
Previously, she did not love her reasons because the reason was I don't know what I'm doing. Oh my gosh, that's great. That is a great example. And I just want to jump on this little tale of that too for a second that I think a lot of people feel like they have to be defined by things like that in their business or their style.
You know, I shoot with natural light 90 % of the time, 95 % of the time. But when I use my flash, 5 % of the time, 10 % of the time,
I love it. And I'm using it at that point because it's a tool, you know that it's just like, hey, we're shooting at this place at this time. And it's two o 'clock on a sunny January day with snow.
Yeah, I'm gonna need something. Yeah, yeah, you need what it is because I use it as a tool. So yeah, like, you don't have to define yourself, whether it's flash, or your pricing,
or business like, I feel like a lot of people will try to define things about them and their business and then just turn off any other possibility because they're like,
well, no, I'm defined here where there could be something to learn from these other things and explore. And like you said, you can explore and test it and be like, no, I really just don't prefer that.
That's cool. Oh my gosh, now that you say that, I realize I was one of these people. Oh my gosh. So early on in my wedding career, like very early on like the first time I got a flash like a big girl flash Yeah,
put it in my hot shoe thinking I was a boss, you know And I shot many weddings several with just one flash on camera And people would talk about off -camera flash at weddings and it was like I don't need that man I know I'm a master of this on -camera flash I can shoot a what in the photos were good.
Yeah. And then I thought maybe there's something here. So I started to experiment and I was like, holy smokes for the rest of my career. I used off camera flash. I would have one on camera and two off camera.
And I just didn't know what I was missing because I didn't know. I never tried it because I was too full of my own ego thinking, I know how to do this. Why would I? Why would I manage all of that if I could do it with one.
Okay, here's why. Because the photos look better. I'm a reception with multiple lights. Yeah, I did it. And then I loved it. Yep. I love it. Awesome. Alright, well, let's wrap this one up.
And I want to wrap this up with the main point of this episode is how critical belief in the fact that you can be successful is. So Heather,
walk us through how someone that maybe can't say that. Like the litmus test for me is I look at what I want and I like basically scale 1 to 10.
How much do I believe that this is in my future? That this is somewhere in my future it is happening. If it is not a 10, how do we make it a 10? Okay, I love that. I love that. Let's talk about the belief ladder a little bit.
So let's say you want to believe that you can build a six figure business, but there is no planet on which you believe that because you just started and you just had your first $150 sale and you're,
you know, whatever, you're just working your way there. So you can't believe that. In fact, what would someone's current belief be in that situation? It would be, I can't see myself as a six -figure photographer.
I don't know if it's in, I would like it to be, but who knows. And then all the doubts of like, I don't know that I'll work in my market, you know, like all those normal,
like, little, little thoughts. Whoa, let's go with that one. Let's go with you have this, your current belief is that won't work in my market. Then what I would say next,
you can just sort of shift that to keep thinking that this won't work in my market. And I don't know if we talked about on the podcast before. I mean, we definitely talked about it at Progress Lab and in Elevate.
But what that does is it separates you from the thought. So when you say, "This won't work in my market," it's almost as if you're reporting the news or you think you are. It's cloudy to get a day with a chance of rain.
You know, you're just saying it, like, factually. Your subconscious thinks that it's fact. It doesn't understand. Absolutely. Which is why we, like, react to a dream when you wake up and you're like, you know, your heart is racing. You have a stressful dream.
your subconscious and your body does not know the difference between what your thoughts are and what is actually happening. Your brain and body believe that to be true as if it's news. So you say that I don't think or that won't be supported in my market.
You could just shift that to I keep thinking. So if you put the phrase I keep thinking in front of it, it all of a sudden gives you the possibility of like, well, maybe my don't know if my thinking is accurate,
you know, maybe there could be something different. So I keep thinking my market won't support that is the next like ladder up on that belief. And the next one might be,
well, it could be possible that my market supports that. And then you could play around with that thought for a little while. Would you look for evidence of somebody else doing that, which might bring up another thought of,
"Oh, it's possible for them, but not for me," but you would have to then ladder that one. Yeah, exactly. You'd have a lot of ladders all over. It's like construction in your brain. Chains and ladders. Here we go. Yeah.
So you're thinking, "That might be a possibility in my market," and then you could look for evidence and say, "That is a possibility in my market because I see someone else doing it and this could be a possibility." There's some version of that till you get to the point where my market can support this.
I can become a six -figure photographer in my market. Listen, I don't blame people. There is zero judgment if you're not there yet. That's why we have the belief ladder.
You just have to take it to keep thinking. I keep thinking my market won't support this. Maybe it's possible. And you just work your way up to develop that new neural pathway over time until you can get to the point.
Listen, listen, if somebody said to me two years ago, you can have a million dollar business. That is hilarious to me. There's like no planet on which that could happen for me.
This is me two years ago. Like what are you talking about? And so in my mind, it's like that is not possible for me. But then I started thinking,
I said, "I keep thinking that's not possible for me." And then it's like, "Well, that could be possible for me." Well, other people are doing it. Maybe that is on my timeline.
Maybe in the future, I could create that. And then it's like, "How could you create that? Why not me?" You just work your way up that ladder until you try on your belief.
I always picture you're just like trying on clothes. When you first try it on, you throw it off so quickly because you're like, "That doesn't fit." But if you work your way up that belief ladder, at some point you put that sweater,
that blazer on and you're like, "Okay, maybe." And then you just practice trying it on. It's like the first time I listened to the new Taylor Swift album. First time I heard it, I'm like, "I mean,
all right. It's good. I like it. It's - Okay, I don't know if it's one of my favorites. I have barely listened to anything else to April 19th, Heather. - I know I was in the car with you.
We listened to it over and over. I'm pretty loud, Lucia. - Everyone coming to Iceland, my car will be the Taylor Swift car. I don't even know when this happened 'cause I was never a Swiftie until the fall. I think what happened is I watched them as Americana documentary on Netflix,
which I'm like, man, this girl is it's talent and it works her ass off. I expected the hustle and the motivation and the business savvy of her. And then she released 1989, which was one of my favorite albums of her anyway.
And then I started digging into all the ball tracks. And then like, my one friend at the barn is also swifty and pulled me in. And I'm just like, I'm all in. Next thing you know. Yeah. Yeah. So there's my belief ladder in action.
Oh my gosh, that's actually a good point. But listen, I think all of us had to work through our own versions of a belief ladder to get to a six -figure business. Maybe we didn't realize we were doing it, but it took time.
And there's some new ones that pop up. I can guarantee that there's still some other things that are thoughts that are preventing me from getting to whatever goals that are set, because otherwise I'd be there.
That's right. So there has to be something. on a little bit as I'm driving the car. - Have you ever done that? That's for real.
I actually happened to me not too long ago. I had the emergency brake on and I think I was in Craig's car 'cause his is an automatic, mine's a manual, but I was like, put it in reverse and I'm like, why is the car not going?
- My car's too bougie, I think. I don't think it'll go if you have the emergency brake on. - Oh, it'll probably tell you. Ms. Nicole, you have the emergency brake on. Could you please please. Subaru. But it is,
it is the nice Subaru. It is, it is. Oh, man. I love it. Oh my gosh. All right. So Belief Ladder guys, like, I find at least for me,
the easiest way is like, all right, what am I thinking? What do I want to think? And then figuring out those different levels in between, like, maybe as many as five of like,
like, okay, and then you have to separate. I keep thinking, which allows us to separate ourselves from the thought and then moving up to something neutral and then moving into something fairly good to something that you really want.
And just FYI, I have an in -depth training on the belief ladder. Guess where, Nicole? In Elevate? Inside of Elevate. Oh my God,
yeah. I love it. Excellent. Excellent, excellent.
Hey!
